10% Ethanol in Gas
in [Technical]
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From: Mike Romain on 22 Dec 2007 15:51 Oh, compression ratio is either 8:1 or 8.5:1 as far as I can find out, not sure which. Mike
From: whitefordtruck on 22 Dec 2007 16:16 boxing(a)sasktel.net wrote: >ethanol blended gasoline. its high octance and prevents gas line >freeze up. that's good enough for me. i think i would rather give my >money to the farmers than the arabs. the farmers haven't got into >suicide bombing just yet. true, but it costs more fuel to make the ethanol than it saves in the cars. whitefordtruck(a)gmail.com
From: jim on 22 Dec 2007 18:14 Where I live they have been selling 10% gasohol at the farm co-op stations since the mid seventies. There aren't many of those around today (because the engine was the only thing AMC built to last)) but back then every AMC 258 engine I ever saw gets better mileage on 10% ethanol than straight gas. There were one of the best engines to tune for good mileage on gasohol. And cruising at 1700 RPM shouldn't be a problem either. -jim Mike Romain wrote: > > Kevin Bottorff wrote: > > Mike Romain <romainm(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in news:476c0a93$0$30680 > > $9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com: > > > >> Kevin Bottorff wrote: > >>>> > >>> In spite of my disagreeing with you. At least in the US you can get a > >>> exemption if your viechiel is not said by the manufacture to use any > >>> ethanol. > >>> On the other hand, I know of very few that offically say they can not > >>> use it. KB > >>> > >> You know Kevin, one thing you seem to miss is the nature of what I > >> drive. It has the aerodynamics of a brick so needs 'full' power to be > >> able to cruise at highway speeds. Any slight loss, means the gas pedal > >> has to be mashed to the floor to hold 65 on a hill or in a head wind > >> instead of floating along at half throttle. This makes a radical > >> difference in gas mileage. > >> > >> The owners manual for both of my AMC Jeeps also warns of drivability > > and > >> poor performance issues with the mix, let alone forbidding it's use in > >> the CJ7 so it is even 'expected'. > >> > >> Mike > >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > >> 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build > >> Photos: ://mhttpikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com > > > > > > just for curiosity sake, what is your gearing, rear end ratio and tire > > size? compression ratio of the eng. too. also the dist advance curve if > > you know it. KB > > > > I am running tall skinny BFG mud tires in a 33x9.5" size with 3.31 > gears. This gives me 2300 rpm at 65 mph in 4th gear of my T5 tranny. I > do not use overdrive or 5th gear because of lugging issues which again > drops me by 5 mpg when I use it vs 4th. 5th at 65 mph is only 1725 or > so RPM which is to low. > > In other words I am right at the edge of good drivability and gear > ratios.... > > My 258 or 4.2L straight six engine has a 2bbl Weber-Carter BBD feedback > carb on it with no computer running any emissions or the feedback > circuit so it's totally manually set up. It has an Accel SuperCoil, > slightly overgapped plugs, oversized straight pipe leading to a Dynomax > SuperTurbo muffler, no cat needed on a CJ7 here in Canada and pretty > much stock everything else. > > Base timing is at 9 deg BTDC with a ported vacuum source and a > mechanical plate advance. My mechanical advance comes in full at > approximately 1600 rpm. Ported advances with throttle. My light isn't > fancy enough for the full advance degree reading. > > I have had two physical engines and several different distributors in, > all giving me the same basic performance curve so figure it's 'right'. > > I can pass Canadian tailpipe emissions on the ASM 2525 test with 589 NOx > , 16 ppm HC and 0.11% CO. > > I get a stable 23 mpg or 11L/100km highway (checked recently using Esso > 91 octane) and it goes like a scalded cat with it's light all fiberglass > body. 1st lights up the tires way too easy, 2nd tops out at 52 mph > turning 4400 rpm, 3rd pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th buries the speedo and > I have 'no' urge to find out how fast 5th will go. > > It will purr along on our 400 series highways at a nice 120-140 kph so I > can keep up to the big trucks easy. (120 kph in the slow lane usually > around here holds up traffic, 100 kph or 65 mph is almost suicidal) > > We have taken it on three 3000 to 4500 'mile' vacation trips to the east > coast even. > > All in all I/we love the old thing and have a new frame sitting in the > back yard getting beefed up before installing in the spring. It needs > it's TLC still. It is not forgiving about when needing a tune up > either, LOL!... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build > Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
From: Mike Romain on 22 Dec 2007 19:14 Well the owners manual says that the computer feedback carb engines can benefit from using high octane gas if run hard and hot so maybe the ethanol mix upped the octane enough to notice? I know I have two different engines with high test and regular because of my manual tuning, so I am already at the top of the performance peak which shows a decrease with the ethanol mix 'or' regular gas. I 'am' tuned with a 'real' 4400 rpm top end. Stock it hits a wall at 3500 rpm max, most hit the wall at 3300 under load. Mike jim wrote: > Where I live they have been selling 10% gasohol at the farm co-op stations > since the mid seventies. There aren't many of those around today (because > the engine was the only thing AMC built to last)) but back then every AMC > 258 engine I ever saw gets better mileage on 10% ethanol than straight > gas. There were one of the best engines to tune for good mileage on > gasohol. And cruising at 1700 RPM shouldn't be a problem either. > > -jim > > > > > > Mike Romain wrote: >> Kevin Bottorff wrote: >>> Mike Romain <romainm(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in news:476c0a93$0$30680 >>> $9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com: >>> >>>> Kevin Bottorff wrote: >>>>> In spite of my disagreeing with you. At least in the US you can get a >>>>> exemption if your viechiel is not said by the manufacture to use any >>>>> ethanol. >>>>> On the other hand, I know of very few that offically say they can not >>>>> use it. KB >>>>> >>>> You know Kevin, one thing you seem to miss is the nature of what I >>>> drive. It has the aerodynamics of a brick so needs 'full' power to be >>>> able to cruise at highway speeds. Any slight loss, means the gas pedal >>>> has to be mashed to the floor to hold 65 on a hill or in a head wind >>>> instead of floating along at half throttle. This makes a radical >>>> difference in gas mileage. >>>> >>>> The owners manual for both of my AMC Jeeps also warns of drivability >>> and >>>> poor performance issues with the mix, let alone forbidding it's use in >>>> the CJ7 so it is even 'expected'. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >>>> 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build >>>> Photos: ://mhttpikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com >>> >>> just for curiosity sake, what is your gearing, rear end ratio and tire >>> size? compression ratio of the eng. too. also the dist advance curve if >>> you know it. KB >>> >> I am running tall skinny BFG mud tires in a 33x9.5" size with 3.31 >> gears. This gives me 2300 rpm at 65 mph in 4th gear of my T5 tranny. I >> do not use overdrive or 5th gear because of lugging issues which again >> drops me by 5 mpg when I use it vs 4th. 5th at 65 mph is only 1725 or >> so RPM which is to low. >> >> In other words I am right at the edge of good drivability and gear >> ratios.... >> >> My 258 or 4.2L straight six engine has a 2bbl Weber-Carter BBD feedback >> carb on it with no computer running any emissions or the feedback >> circuit so it's totally manually set up. It has an Accel SuperCoil, >> slightly overgapped plugs, oversized straight pipe leading to a Dynomax >> SuperTurbo muffler, no cat needed on a CJ7 here in Canada and pretty >> much stock everything else. >> >> Base timing is at 9 deg BTDC with a ported vacuum source and a >> mechanical plate advance. My mechanical advance comes in full at >> approximately 1600 rpm. Ported advances with throttle. My light isn't >> fancy enough for the full advance degree reading. >> >> I have had two physical engines and several different distributors in, >> all giving me the same basic performance curve so figure it's 'right'. >> >> I can pass Canadian tailpipe emissions on the ASM 2525 test with 589 NOx >> , 16 ppm HC and 0.11% CO. >> >> I get a stable 23 mpg or 11L/100km highway (checked recently using Esso >> 91 octane) and it goes like a scalded cat with it's light all fiberglass >> body. 1st lights up the tires way too easy, 2nd tops out at 52 mph >> turning 4400 rpm, 3rd pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th buries the speedo and >> I have 'no' urge to find out how fast 5th will go. >> >> It will purr along on our 400 series highways at a nice 120-140 kph so I >> can keep up to the big trucks easy. (120 kph in the slow lane usually >> around here holds up traffic, 100 kph or 65 mph is almost suicidal) >> >> We have taken it on three 3000 to 4500 'mile' vacation trips to the east >> coast even. >> >> All in all I/we love the old thing and have a new frame sitting in the >> back yard getting beefed up before installing in the spring. It needs >> it's TLC still. It is not forgiving about when needing a tune up >> either, LOL!... >> >> Mike >> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >> 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build >> Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com
From: Kevin Bottorff on 22 Dec 2007 19:44
Mike Romain <romainm(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in news:476d6952$0$5189$9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com: > Kevin Bottorff wrote: >> Mike Romain <romainm(a)sympatico.ca> wrote in news:476c0a93$0$30680 >> $9a6e19ea(a)unlimited.newshosting.com: >> >>> Kevin Bottorff wrote: >>>>> >>>> In spite of my disagreeing with you. At least in the US you can get >>>> a exemption if your viechiel is not said by the manufacture to use >>>> any ethanol. >>>> On the other hand, I know of very few that offically say they can >>>> not >>>> use it. KB >>>> >>> You know Kevin, one thing you seem to miss is the nature of what I >>> drive. It has the aerodynamics of a brick so needs 'full' power to >>> be able to cruise at highway speeds. Any slight loss, means the gas >>> pedal has to be mashed to the floor to hold 65 on a hill or in a >>> head wind instead of floating along at half throttle. This makes a >>> radical difference in gas mileage. >>> >>> The owners manual for both of my AMC Jeeps also warns of drivability >> and >>> poor performance issues with the mix, let alone forbidding it's use >>> in the CJ7 so it is even 'expected'. >>> >>> Mike >>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 >>> 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build >>> Photos: ://mhttpikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com >> >> >> just for curiosity sake, what is your gearing, rear end ratio and >> tire size? compression ratio of the eng. too. also the dist advance >> curve if you know it. KB >> > > I am running tall skinny BFG mud tires in a 33x9.5" size with 3.31 > gears. This gives me 2300 rpm at 65 mph in 4th gear of my T5 tranny. > I do not use overdrive or 5th gear because of lugging issues which > again drops me by 5 mpg when I use it vs 4th. 5th at 65 mph is only > 1725 or so RPM which is to low. > > In other words I am right at the edge of good drivability and gear > ratios.... > > My 258 or 4.2L straight six engine has a 2bbl Weber-Carter BBD > feedback carb on it with no computer running any emissions or the > feedback circuit so it's totally manually set up. It has an Accel > SuperCoil, slightly overgapped plugs, oversized straight pipe leading > to a Dynomax SuperTurbo muffler, no cat needed on a CJ7 here in Canada > and pretty much stock everything else. > > Base timing is at 9 deg BTDC with a ported vacuum source and a > mechanical plate advance. My mechanical advance comes in full at > approximately 1600 rpm. Ported advances with throttle. My light > isn't fancy enough for the full advance degree reading. > > I have had two physical engines and several different distributors in, > all giving me the same basic performance curve so figure it's 'right'. > > I can pass Canadian tailpipe emissions on the ASM 2525 test with 589 > NOx , 16 ppm HC and 0.11% CO. > > I get a stable 23 mpg or 11L/100km highway (checked recently using > Esso 91 octane) and it goes like a scalded cat with it's light all > fiberglass body. 1st lights up the tires way too easy, 2nd tops out at > 52 mph turning 4400 rpm, 3rd pulls hard up to 75 mph, 4th buries the > speedo and I have 'no' urge to find out how fast 5th will go. > > It will purr along on our 400 series highways at a nice 120-140 kph so > I can keep up to the big trucks easy. (120 kph in the slow lane > usually around here holds up traffic, 100 kph or 65 mph is almost > suicidal) > > We have taken it on three 3000 to 4500 'mile' vacation trips to the > east coast even. > > All in all I/we love the old thing and have a new frame sitting in the > back yard getting beefed up before installing in the spring. It needs > it's TLC still. It is not forgiving about when needing a tune up > either, LOL!... > > Mike > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00 > 'New' frame in the works for '08. Some Canadian Bush Trip and Build > Photos: http://mikeromainjeeptrips.shutterfly.com I will ponder this awhile and see what I think. If I were you I would really want to slap some stock wheels on for a full tank trip and use 5th and see what the milage and power differences are. It could prove a over geared or not situtation. If its as light as I think it should be. probly 2600 lbs or so, it should pull those tall gears ok sans a strong headwind if the dist. mech advance is truly all in by 1700 rpm. If you want to play, when you try a tank of ethanol bump your timeing about 3 degrees. KB -- Thunder Snake #9 "Protect" your rights or "lose" them. |