A driving question for a change!
in [UK Drivers]
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From: JNugent on 9 Feb 2010 09:02 Ian Jackson wrote: > In message <7tck5lFhthU4(a)mid.individual.net>, Adrian > <toomany2cvs(a)gmail.com> writes >> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> gurgled happily, >> sounding much like they were saying: >> >>> If you want to experience there the ultimate thrill in lane confusion >>> and spectacular proliferation of traffic lights, it's worth a visit to >>> the roundabouts at J2 and J4 of the M40. I'm convinced that the >>> 'architects' of these schemes have shares in the companies which >>> manufacturer road paint and traffic lights. >> >> Eh? Beaconsfield and Handy Cross? What's the problem with them? > > If you select the correct lane when coming up to the traffic lights, you > find that you are nearly always in the wrong lane immediately after you > have gone through the them. That's a feature of the abominable interaction of roundabouts and traffic lights. There have to be better ways of controlling peak traffic at roundabouts (one good way would be to control only the predominant flow at peak hours in order to give other flows a chance, but only with a set of peak-hour lights on the approach to the roundabout, not on it, as this tends to produce the problem you identified).
From: DavidR on 9 Feb 2010 15:22 "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote > > That's a feature of the abominable interaction of roundabouts and traffic > lights. > > There have to be better ways of controlling peak traffic at roundabouts The annoying thing is that the attempts to solve a problem for perhaps 1 or 2 hours in a day causes the trafffic over the remainder of the day to have a much longer transit time.
From: Ray Keattch on 9 Feb 2010 15:32 Ian Jackson wrote: > In message <b4adnelJTo9XufLWnZ2dnUVZ8l1i4p2d(a)giganews.com>, Ray Keattch > <r.keattch5050(a)btinternet.com> writes >> Ian Dalziel wrote: >>> On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 15:00:44 GMT, Harry Bloomfield >>> <harry.m1byt(a)NOSPAM.tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Ian Dalziel explained : >>>>>> *If* there are two lanes, and if they both lead to the same >>>>>> place in the same direction, and if you are in a right-hand lane >>>>>> such that someone can pass you whilst using the left-hand lane, >>>>>> you are in the wrong lane, as the PP observed. >>>>>> >>>>> So if you're approaching a roundabout intending to turn right you >>>>> should be in the left-hand lane? I think not. >>>> He said BOTH lanes leading to the same direction. >>> Both lanes approaching a roundbout lead to the roundabout. >> >> A1 northbound, exit to Welwyn Garden City (just after leaving the >> Hatfield Tunnel. Two lanes on the sliproad to a roundabout. The only >> option is to turn right (if not going back onto the northbound >> carriageway). >> >> So many numpties get upset when you pass them on the left approaching >> the roundabout. >> > Unless Lane 2 is already queuing to enter the roundabout (stationary or > almost stationary), is there actually any NEED to pass them on the left? Yes - why join a queue when there is clear road space to use? Those in the right lane are generally going towards Hatfield or Hertford, and those in the left Welwyn Garden City. > While it may be arguably legal to do so, do you really HAVE to (just > because you can)? Yes - I see no reason to join a queue of traffic when I can make progress in a different lane. Everyone else has the same choice. > Undertaking can be a fairly dangerous thing to do, and > is best undertaken (no pun intended) with a certain amount of > circumspection. I know I certainly circumspect myself before I do it. ;o)) Agreed. -- MrBitsy
From: Ray Keattch on 9 Feb 2010 15:34 Harry Bloomfield wrote: > Ray Keattch pretended : >> Depends how close to the roundabout. Drivers are getting into the >> habit now of getting in the right lane (when turning right) at the >> earliest opportunity - even if this is a mile before the >> junction/turn/roundabout. >> >> In general terms, if someone can pass you on the left, you are in the >> wrong lane. > > I make it a personal rule never to move to the right hand lane until the > traffic is actually starting to come to a stop in that lane - why drive > like a lemming, leaving the left lane empty? Use the left lane, there > will always be a gap to be found in the right lane to pull into. Completely agree. If drivers are in the right lane too early, I will pass them all on the left if there is a safe gap to pull into. I will not do so if it is barging in. -- MrBitsy
From: Ray Keattch on 9 Feb 2010 15:46
Adrian wrote: > Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> gurgled happily, > sounding much like they were saying: > >> In message <7tcrvbF8ptU3(a)mid.individual.net>, Adrian >> <toomany2cvs(a)gmail.com> writes >>> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> gurgled happily, >>> sounding much like they were saying: >>> >>>>> Beaconsfield, post services, doesn't seem to be anywhere yet, but >>>>> local.live.com's Bird's Eye view has the updated Handy Cross junction >>>>> layout - and the markings all appear consistent and logical to me from >>>>> the shots, as they always have "on the ground". >>>> The resolution of the Handy Cross roundabout isn't really good enough >>>> to show the intersecting lane markings. In fact, you can hardly see >>>> them. It's far, far worse than it seems!! >>> Umm, they're fine from here... Bird's Eye view, yes? Zoomed fully in? >>> I'm even reading the direction markings painted onto the lanes. > >> Ah, yes. The Bird's Eye view shows the lane markings much better. > > Which is why I said >>>>> local.live.com's Bird's Eye view > several posts ago... > >> But it's not really the same as when you are on the ground. > > Yes, it is. > >> Unless you and the other users of the roundabout are familiar with what >> to do, you are at serious risk of being side-swiped by someone in an >> adjacent lane. > > Umm, yes, if people don't bother looking at the lines or markings, and > just make vague assumptions, then there might be a problem. Just as on > any multi-lane roundabout. > > "Blind self-absorbed fuckwits cause problems" Hold the front page... > > The A414/A1081 roundabout at the top of the d/c from M25 Jn22 (London > Colney) has long been a bad 'un for that - far, far worse than either of > the two you mentioned - especially at the ESE entrance, where 414 traffic > heading west meets 1081 traffic heading onto the r'a'b. They seem to have > sorted it quite effectively, simply by painting the continuation of the > 414 lanes red. Far fewer people ignoring the (always perfectly clear) > markings and signage now. Again, too new for any of the views. I have always been confused why so many drivers can't stay in lane going around that roundabout. As you say, the lane markings have always been clear, yet drivers insist on cutting corners. I was on the 414 heading SW once. I entered the roundabout in lane 2, passing the DC from the M25 on the left. The roundabout isn't circular at that point, so you appear to those (blind and stupid) drivers in lane one that you are entering their lane. Even though the lane markings clearly show that corner is more square than round, they just blindly cut straight across lane one. -- MrBitsy |