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From: Steve W. on 26 May 2010 10:54
stryped wrote:
> On May 25, 9:39 pm, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
>> stryped wrote:
>>> I have a 1996 chevy Silverado with a Kelsey-Hayes EBC310 ABS. I am
>>> needing to replace the master cylinder but am afraid I will ot be able
>>> to properly bleed the system because of comments I have read about air
>>> getting into the ABS. Can anyone tell me if this is true?
>> 1996 will need a GOOD scan tool and some clips for the valves to bleed
>> the ABS unit. A Tech 2 or other high end unit is needed to activate the
>> bleeding procedure to get the air out IF you get air into it.
>>
>> BUT there is a way around this, the catch is that you have to pay a LOT
>> of attention to do it, and it takes about an extra quart of brake fluid.
>>
>> You start by flushing the system with new fluid. To do this you break
>> loose one rear bleeder and one front bleeder. Then you use a turkey
>> baster to remove as much of the old fluid out of the master. Now fill it
>> with clean fluid and WITH THE ENGINE OFF AND THE KEY OFF! you crack the
>> front bleeder and let the fluid come out. KEEP THE reservoir FULL as you
>> do this. Continue until you get clean fluid. Repeat with the rear.
>>
>> Now for the tricky part. Remove one pad on the front caliper, then
>> GENTLY you push down the pedal to push out the piston just a SMALL
>> amount while making sure the master stays full. Now on the back you
>> remove the drum and gently pump the wheel cylinder full with a clamp
>> holding the front piston so it cannot move any farther.
>>
>> Now for the fun part. Bench bleed the new master, then install it and
>> connect it up. Now GENTLY compress the rear wheel cylinder and the front
>> piston. This will push new fluid up through the master and any air that
>> got into the lines below the master. If you do it gently and correctly
>> you end up not getting air into the ABS and new fluid in the system.
>>
>> --
>> Steve W.
>> (\___/)
>> (='.'=)
>> (")_(")
>
> Why does my hanes manual in the section on how to replace the master
> cylinder not say anythign about bleeding the ABS. Is it possible most
> of the time you dont have to?

I wouldn't trust a Haynes manual for oil capacity let alone ABS function.

Note how Haynes likes to cover ALL variations of a vehicle with one
manual? The phrases they like is "others similar" and "others may
differ". With ABS that difference can cost you your life.

The KH310 is a 3 channel ABS unit. One channel each to the front brakes
and one channel to the rear brakes. If your changing out downstream
parts (steel lines, rubber lines, wheel cylinders, calipers) You usually
don't have to bleed them because the air is past the unit.

If on the other hand you are changing upstream parts (connector lines,
master cylinder, ECU) you need to bleed the unit to make SURE no air
stays in.

The method I posted is a Q&D shortcut that does work 99% of the time as
long as you don't let a lot of air into the lines from the master
cylinder. If you let them drain out then you WILL have to bleed it and
without a scan tool to cycle the modulators in the unit you can't.

There is NO other way to get the air out of the unit.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
From: jim beam on 26 May 2010 11:02
On 05/26/2010 07:54 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> stryped wrote:
>> On May 25, 9:39 pm, "Steve W."<csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
>>> stryped wrote:
>>>> I have a 1996 chevy Silverado with a Kelsey-Hayes EBC310 ABS. I am
>>>> needing to replace the master cylinder but am afraid I will ot be able
>>>> to properly bleed the system because of comments I have read about air
>>>> getting into the ABS. Can anyone tell me if this is true?
>>> 1996 will need a GOOD scan tool and some clips for the valves to bleed
>>> the ABS unit. A Tech 2 or other high end unit is needed to activate the
>>> bleeding procedure to get the air out IF you get air into it.
>>>
>>> BUT there is a way around this, the catch is that you have to pay a LOT
>>> of attention to do it, and it takes about an extra quart of brake fluid.
>>>
>>> You start by flushing the system with new fluid. To do this you break
>>> loose one rear bleeder and one front bleeder. Then you use a turkey
>>> baster to remove as much of the old fluid out of the master. Now fill it
>>> with clean fluid and WITH THE ENGINE OFF AND THE KEY OFF! you crack the
>>> front bleeder and let the fluid come out. KEEP THE reservoir FULL as you
>>> do this. Continue until you get clean fluid. Repeat with the rear.
>>>
>>> Now for the tricky part. Remove one pad on the front caliper, then
>>> GENTLY you push down the pedal to push out the piston just a SMALL
>>> amount while making sure the master stays full. Now on the back you
>>> remove the drum and gently pump the wheel cylinder full with a clamp
>>> holding the front piston so it cannot move any farther.
>>>
>>> Now for the fun part. Bench bleed the new master, then install it and
>>> connect it up. Now GENTLY compress the rear wheel cylinder and the front
>>> piston. This will push new fluid up through the master and any air that
>>> got into the lines below the master. If you do it gently and correctly
>>> you end up not getting air into the ABS and new fluid in the system.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve W.
>>> (\___/)
>>> (='.'=)
>>> (")_(")
>>
>> Why does my hanes manual in the section on how to replace the master
>> cylinder not say anythign about bleeding the ABS. Is it possible most
>> of the time you dont have to?
>
> I wouldn't trust a Haynes manual for oil capacity let alone ABS function.
>
> Note how Haynes likes to cover ALL variations of a vehicle with one
> manual? The phrases they like is "others similar" and "others may
> differ". With ABS that difference can cost you your life.
>
> The KH310 is a 3 channel ABS unit. One channel each to the front brakes
> and one channel to the rear brakes. If your changing out downstream
> parts (steel lines, rubber lines, wheel cylinders, calipers) You usually
> don't have to bleed them because the air is past the unit.
>
> If on the other hand you are changing upstream parts (connector lines,
> master cylinder, ECU) you need to bleed the unit to make SURE no air
> stays in.
>
> The method I posted is a Q&D shortcut that does work 99% of the time as
> long as you don't let a lot of air into the lines from the master
> cylinder. If you let them drain out then you WILL have to bleed it and
> without a scan tool to cycle the modulators in the unit you can't.
>
> There is NO other way to get the air out of the unit.
>

how are abs units bled at the factory?



--
nomina rutrum rutrum
From: stryped on 26 May 2010 11:24
On May 26, 9:54 am, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> stryped wrote:
> > On May 25, 9:39 pm, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> >> stryped wrote:
> >>> I have a 1996 chevy Silverado with a Kelsey-Hayes EBC310 ABS. I am
> >>> needing to replace the master cylinder but am afraid I will ot be able
> >>> to properly bleed the system because of comments I have read about air
> >>> getting into the ABS. Can anyone tell me if this is true?
> >> 1996 will need a GOOD scan tool and some clips for the valves to bleed
> >> the ABS unit. A Tech 2 or other high end unit is needed to activate the
> >> bleeding procedure to get the air out IF you get air into it.
>
> >> BUT there is a way around this, the catch is that you have to pay a LOT
> >> of attention to do it, and it takes about an extra quart of brake fluid.
>
> >> You start by flushing the system with new fluid. To do this you break
> >> loose one rear bleeder and one front bleeder. Then you use a turkey
> >> baster to remove as much of the old fluid out of the master. Now fill it
> >> with clean fluid and WITH THE ENGINE OFF AND THE KEY OFF! you crack the
> >> front bleeder and let the fluid come out. KEEP THE reservoir FULL as you
> >> do this. Continue until you get clean fluid. Repeat with the rear.
>
> >> Now for the tricky part. Remove one pad on the front caliper, then
> >> GENTLY you push down the pedal to push out the piston just a SMALL
> >> amount while making sure the master stays full. Now on the back you
> >> remove the drum and gently pump the wheel cylinder full with a clamp
> >> holding the front piston so it cannot move any farther.
>
> >> Now for the fun part. Bench bleed the new master, then install it and
> >> connect it up. Now GENTLY compress the rear wheel cylinder and the front
> >> piston. This will push new fluid up through the master and any air that
> >> got into the lines below the master. If you do it gently and correctly
> >> you end up not getting air into the ABS and new fluid in the system.
>
> >> --
> >> Steve W.
> >> (\___/)
> >> (='.'=)
> >> (")_(")
>
> > Why does my hanes manual in the section on how to replace the master
> > cylinder not say anythign about bleeding the ABS. Is it possible most
> > of the time you dont have to?
>
> I wouldn't trust a Haynes manual for oil capacity let alone ABS function.
>
> Note how Haynes likes to cover ALL variations of a vehicle with one
> manual? The phrases they like is "others similar" and "others may
> differ". With ABS that difference can cost you your life.
>
> The KH310 is a 3 channel ABS unit. One channel each to the front brakes
> and one channel to the rear brakes. If your changing out downstream
> parts (steel lines, rubber lines, wheel cylinders, calipers) You usually
> don't have to bleed them because the air is past the unit.
>
> If on the other hand you are changing upstream parts (connector lines,
> master cylinder, ECU) you need to bleed the unit to make SURE no air
> stays in.
>
> The method I posted is a Q&D shortcut that does work 99% of the time as
> long as you don't let a lot of air into the lines from the master
> cylinder. If you let them drain out then you WILL have to bleed it and
> without a scan tool to cycle the modulators in the unit you can't.
>
> There is NO other way to get the air out of the unit.
>
> --
> Steve W.
> (\___/)
> (='.'=)
> (")_(")- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

When you take your truck to a shop like Midas do they have those scan
tools to do this?
From: stryped on 26 May 2010 15:42
On May 26, 9:54 am, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> stryped wrote:
> > On May 25, 9:39 pm, "Steve W." <csr...(a)NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> >> stryped wrote:
> >>> I have a 1996 chevy Silverado with a Kelsey-Hayes EBC310 ABS. I am
> >>> needing to replace the master cylinder but am afraid I will ot be able
> >>> to properly bleed the system because of comments I have read about air
> >>> getting into the ABS. Can anyone tell me if this is true?
> >> 1996 will need a GOOD scan tool and some clips for the valves to bleed
> >> the ABS unit. A Tech 2 or other high end unit is needed to activate the
> >> bleeding procedure to get the air out IF you get air into it.
>
> >> BUT there is a way around this, the catch is that you have to pay a LOT
> >> of attention to do it, and it takes about an extra quart of brake fluid.
>
> >> You start by flushing the system with new fluid. To do this you break
> >> loose one rear bleeder and one front bleeder. Then you use a turkey
> >> baster to remove as much of the old fluid out of the master. Now fill it
> >> with clean fluid and WITH THE ENGINE OFF AND THE KEY OFF! you crack the
> >> front bleeder and let the fluid come out. KEEP THE reservoir FULL as you
> >> do this. Continue until you get clean fluid. Repeat with the rear.
>
> >> Now for the tricky part. Remove one pad on the front caliper, then
> >> GENTLY you push down the pedal to push out the piston just a SMALL
> >> amount while making sure the master stays full. Now on the back you
> >> remove the drum and gently pump the wheel cylinder full with a clamp
> >> holding the front piston so it cannot move any farther.
>
> >> Now for the fun part. Bench bleed the new master, then install it and
> >> connect it up. Now GENTLY compress the rear wheel cylinder and the front
> >> piston. This will push new fluid up through the master and any air that
> >> got into the lines below the master. If you do it gently and correctly
> >> you end up not getting air into the ABS and new fluid in the system.
>
> >> --
> >> Steve W.
> >> (\___/)
> >> (='.'=)
> >> (")_(")
>
> > Why does my hanes manual in the section on how to replace the master
> > cylinder not say anythign about bleeding the ABS. Is it possible most
> > of the time you dont have to?
>
> I wouldn't trust a Haynes manual for oil capacity let alone ABS function.
>
> Note how Haynes likes to cover ALL variations of a vehicle with one
> manual? The phrases they like is "others similar" and "others may
> differ". With ABS that difference can cost you your life.
>
> The KH310 is a 3 channel ABS unit. One channel each to the front brakes
> and one channel to the rear brakes. If your changing out downstream
> parts (steel lines, rubber lines, wheel cylinders, calipers) You usually
> don't have to bleed them because the air is past the unit.
>
> If on the other hand you are changing upstream parts (connector lines,
> master cylinder, ECU) you need to bleed the unit to make SURE no air
> stays in.
>
> The method I posted is a Q&D shortcut that does work 99% of the time as
> long as you don't let a lot of air into the lines from the master
> cylinder. If you let them drain out then you WILL have to bleed it and
> without a scan tool to cycle the modulators in the unit you can't.
>
> There is NO other way to get the air out of the unit.
>
> --
> Steve W.
> (\___/)
> (='.'=)
> (")_(")- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have read elsewhere that driving and slamming ont he breaks will
cylc ethe valve? ALthought, I dont think this will work on me, the ABS
light is constantly on in my vehicle.
From: Steve W. on 26 May 2010 22:01
stryped wrote:
>
> I have read elsewhere that driving and slamming ont he breaks will
> cylc ethe valve? ALthought, I dont think this will work on me, the ABS
> light is constantly on in my vehicle.

Not only won't it work with the light on (that light means the ABS isn't
working anyway) it won't purge the air unless there is also fluid flow
and the valves need to cycle more than once.

Also this system has a three section unit. The only way to purge the
system would be to make sure ALL the circuits activated. That means you
need the right front to activate, then the left front and the rear as
well. Got a good controlled way to KNOW that they all activated by
slamming on the brakes? I sure don't.

I have read on the internet that if I spray myself with AXE body spray
that all the hot women will jump on me. Think I believe it????


As for the other post. I don't know. I would suspect they might since
they do brakes. BUT a LOT of those shops make the employees provide
there own tools so ??????

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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