From: Alan Baker on
In article <57q9t5lr4jhb5hervqhb2q51b3poff1eig(a)4ax.com>,
Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:32:51 -0700, Alan Baker <alangbaker(a)telus.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <dp67t55v3elj8vebi9ti24rlrqtr2hhl8b(a)4ax.com>,
> > Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:48:20 -0700, Scott in SoCal
> >> <scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Last time on rec.autos.driving, Ashton Crusher <demi(a)moore.net> said:
> >> >
> >> >>On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:47:45 +0000, Alexander Rogge
> >> >><a_rogge(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>Nick Naim wrote:
> >> >>>> I pegged her at 70 years old plus minus.
> >> >>>> She pulled out of a fast food on my left in a heart beat
> >> >>>> I,m in the left lane of thru traffic.
> >> >>>> I,m on the binders on ABS and they are working on overtime.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>The ABS should not be activating on a dry surface, as this increases
> >> >>>your stopping distance.
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>ABS will activate on a dry surface the same as on a wet surface
> >> >>whenever the tire is about to lock. And in the process it shortens
> >> >>your stopping distance, not increases it.
> >> >
> >> >It shortens your stopping distance vs. screeching to a stop with
> >> >locked brakes, sure.
> >> >
> >> >But true threshold braking is the shortest stopping distance of all.
> >>
> >> ABS is threshold braking. And any decent ABS is able to do it far
> >> better then a human can, particularly on wet pavement.
> >
> >No. ABS is very close to threshold braking, but it is not. It is a very
> >rapid sequence of going slightly beyond the threshold and then back to
> >less than the threshold.
>
> Where you are getting that definition from? It makes no sense to me
> and is contrary to what people have claimed in the past. What's your
> definition of the "threshold" point?

The point of maximum deceleration, of course. Isn't that obvious?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Alan Baker on
In article
<fcaf7147-5294-49d7-809d-df070d894be9(a)c36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
gpsman <gpsman(a)driversmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 25, 9:18�pm, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote:
> > On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 14:32:51 -0700, Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > >In article <dp67t55v3elj8vebi9ti24rlrqtr2hh...(a)4ax.com>,
> > > Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote:
> >
> > >> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:48:20 -0700, Scott in SoCal
> > >> <scottenazt...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> >Last time on rec.autos.driving, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> said:
> >
> > >> >>On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:47:45 +0000, Alexander Rogge
> > >> >><a_ro...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> >>>Nick Naim wrote:
> > >> >>>> I pegged her at 70 years old plus minus.
> > >> >>>> She pulled �out of a fast food on my left in a heart beat
> > >> >>>> I,m in the left lane of thru traffic.
> > >> >>>> I,m on the binders on ABS and they are working on overtime.
> >
> > >> >>>The ABS should not be activating on a dry surface, as this increases
> > >> >>>your stopping distance.
> >
> > >> >>ABS will �activate on a dry surface the same as on a wet surface
> > >> >>whenever the tire is about to lock. �And in the process it shortens
> > >> >>your stopping distance, not increases it.
> >
> > >> >It shortens your stopping distance vs. screeching to a stop with
> > >> >locked brakes, sure.
> >
> > >> >But true threshold braking is the shortest stopping distance of all.
> >
> > >> ABS is threshold braking. �And any decent ABS is able to do it far
> > >> better then a human can, particularly on wet pavement.
> >
> > >No. ABS is very close to threshold braking, but it is not. It is a very
> > >rapid sequence of going slightly beyond the threshold and then back to
> > >less than the threshold.
> >
> > Where you are getting that definition from? �It makes no sense to me
> > and is contrary to what people have claimed in the past. �What's your
> > definition of the "threshold" point?
>
> If a tire slips under braking force the braking threshold of the tire
> has been exceeded.
>
> ABS allows tires to slip, however briefly.
> -----
>
> - gpsman

Not quite true.

On drive pavement, tires achieve maximum deceleration with some small
amount of slip.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>
From: Dave__67 on
On Apr 22, 9:04 pm, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 05:08:07 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67
>
> <spamTHIS...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 21, 11:55 pm, "Nick Naim" <orb...(a)ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> I pegged her at 70 years old plus minus.
> >> She pulled  out of a fast food on my left in a heart beat
> >> I,m in the left lane of thru traffic.
> >> I,m on the binders on ABS and they are working on overtime.
> >> I come to a stop 3 feet from her right front fender.
>
> >If your ABS is kicking on on dry clean pavement you need better tires-
> >you're throwing away stopping distance!
>
> >Dave
>
> How do y9ou figure that?  ABS works, wet or dry, to maximize the
> amount of time the tire is at or near peak friction level.  

No, it does not.

ABS is designed to allow you to still steer while mindlessly whomping
on the brakes. To do so it has to leave a little traction on the
plate.

Anyway, on dry pavement, if you can lock up the brakes, your brakes
are better than your tires. If you improve the grip of the tires
you'll stop faster.


Dave
From: gpsman on
On Apr 26, 6:02 am, Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote:
> In article
> <fcaf7147-5294-49d7-809d-df070d894...(a)c36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>  gpsman <gps...(a)driversmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If a tire slips under braking force the braking threshold of the tire
> > has been exceeded.
>
> > ABS allows tires to slip, however briefly.
>
> Not quite true.
>
> On drive pavement, tires achieve maximum deceleration with some small
> amount of slip.

Would not "I can't read" be a better and more relevant response, or is
there an Answer Unasked Questions contest in progress...?

Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote:

Usenet rule:

You make a claim: you provide the support.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/f1a57c971f489570?hl=en&dmode=source
-----

- gpsman
From: Alan Baker on
In article
<54f6b5b1-110d-432b-bf3e-07a8b3bd6f1e(a)e14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
gpsman <gpsman(a)driversmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 26, 6:02�am, Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote:
> > In article
> > <fcaf7147-5294-49d7-809d-df070d894...(a)c36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > �gpsman <gps...(a)driversmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > If a tire slips under braking force the braking threshold of the tire
> > > has been exceeded.
> >
> > > ABS allows tires to slip, however briefly.
> >
> > Not quite true.
> >
> > On drive pavement, tires achieve maximum deceleration with some small
> > amount of slip.
>
> Would not "I can't read" be a better and more relevant response, or is
> there an Answer Unasked Questions contest in progress...?
>
> Alan Baker <alangba...(a)telus.net> wrote:
>
> Usenet rule:
>
> You make a claim: you provide the support.
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.driving/msg/f1a57c971f489570?hl=en&dm
> ode=source

Are you actually saying you disagree with what I said?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>