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From: L Alpert on 11 Oct 2008 19:11 "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message news:dqKdndcpFsYjSW3VnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >L Alpert wrote: >> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >> news:elmop-41CC57.17532810102008(a)news.x-privat.org... >>> In article <prlue495c95rtnjifnpj92rfkg69viqeu7(a)4ax.com>, >>> Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own >>>> factories. >>> Sure they do. >>> >>> They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if you bypass >>> their stuff, you see problems. >>> >>> Engine oil, probably not. >> >> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake >> fluid, oil, etc. > > i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my > experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda z1. if > you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it sounds like you > haven't achieved full dilution. > > >> >> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than >> the label. > > rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do you "doubt" > that the component quality used by honda under the hood is any better than > frod? have you ever dissected a honda vs. non-honda spec igniter unit for > instance? honda may not manufacture half their stuff directly, but they > /do/ write the spec and /do/ undertake q.c. > While specific components that are manufactured for specific applications will be built for those applications, genric items that are manufactured to a general specification and relabled as OEM are not. This is something I am quite familiar with, as I have been in the OEM industry for many years (non automotive, but OEM non the less). >
From: L Alpert on 11 Oct 2008 19:16 "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-30CFB5.13340111102008(a)news.x-privat.org... > In article <%n4Ik.4646$Ws1.901(a)nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, > "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake >> fluid, >> oil, etc. >> >> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than >> the >> label. > > Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. > > Same with coolant. > > Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. > > They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long > gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf > at Goober's gas station. There is nothing specific about Honda fluids. They are generic products that are made by other manufacturers that label them for Honda. They may audit their suppliers, and will have specific requirements for quality systems and/or ensure that they are ISO registered, but of course, the systems also apply to anything they manufacture.
From: L Alpert on 11 Oct 2008 19:18 "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message news:tPednYbirYmklmzVnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... > Retired VIP wrote: >> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:34:01 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >> <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote: >> >>> In article <%n4Ik.4646$Ws1.901(a)nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, >>> "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote: >>> >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake >>>> fluid, oil, etc. >>>> >>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other >>>> than the label. >>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. >>> >>> Same with coolant. >>> >>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. >>> >>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long >>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf >>> at Goober's gas station. >> >> What is so 'highly engineered' about a power steering system? Exactly >> what is there about Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford or Chrysler power steering >> fluid that makes it special? ATF fluid needs to supply the proper >> friction modifiers so there is a difference between Ford and GM ATF >> but if the after-market ATF has the proper modifiers, it will perform >> the same as the OEM stuff. >> >> I've been using Preston Anti-freeze (the green stuff) in my cars for >> the last 45 years and I have never had a engine or cooling system >> problem that could have been caused by the coolant. Why pay $15.00 a >> gallon for anti-freeze that carries a GM or Ford brand when I can get >> something just as good for half the price? >> >> Jack > > antifreeze with silicates [cheap corrosion inhibitors] cause much sorter > seal lives. there's increased abrasion of the seal interface. The correct type of antifreeze can be purchased for any vehicle.
From: Bob Jones on 11 Oct 2008 21:04 "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:staIk.2307$Ei5.1384(a)flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com... > > "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:tPednYbirYmklmzVnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> Retired VIP wrote: >>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:34:01 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >>> <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote: >>> >>>> In article <%n4Ik.4646$Ws1.901(a)nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, >>>> "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past >>>>> 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, >>>>> brake fluid, oil, etc. >>>>> >>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other >>>>> than the label. >>>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. >>>> >>>> Same with coolant. >>>> >>>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. >>>> >>>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long >>>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the >>>> shelf at Goober's gas station. >>> >>> What is so 'highly engineered' about a power steering system? Exactly >>> what is there about Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford or Chrysler power steering >>> fluid that makes it special? ATF fluid needs to supply the proper >>> friction modifiers so there is a difference between Ford and GM ATF >>> but if the after-market ATF has the proper modifiers, it will perform >>> the same as the OEM stuff. >>> >>> I've been using Preston Anti-freeze (the green stuff) in my cars for >>> the last 45 years and I have never had a engine or cooling system >>> problem that could have been caused by the coolant. Why pay $15.00 a >>> gallon for anti-freeze that carries a GM or Ford brand when I can get >>> something just as good for half the price? >>> >>> Jack >> >> antifreeze with silicates [cheap corrosion inhibitors] cause much sorter >> seal lives. there's increased abrasion of the seal interface. > > The correct type of antifreeze can be purchased for any vehicle. > But not all antifreeze of the same type are created equal for a particular vehicle.
From: jim beam on 11 Oct 2008 22:07
L Alpert wrote: > "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message > news:elmop-30CFB5.13340111102008(a)news.x-privat.org... >> In article <%n4Ik.4646$Ws1.901(a)nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, >> "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote: >> >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake >>> fluid, >>> oil, etc. >>> >>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than >>> the >>> label. >> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. >> >> Same with coolant. >> >> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. >> >> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long >> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf >> at Goober's gas station. > > There is nothing specific about Honda fluids. They are generic products i've proven that not true for at least two of the major car fluids. * use of non-honda power steering fluid in a honda system wrecks seals. i know that from personal experience. * use of non-honda transmission fluid, even one that allegedly exceeds the nominal dexron II spec, makes a honda transmission shift like you've been rear-ended. i know that from personal experience. i don't know any different facts on honda coolant or brake fluids, but based on the above, i can easily believe them to be of a high spec that exceeds relabeled generics. > that are made by other manufacturers that label them for Honda. > > They may audit their suppliers, and will have specific requirements for > quality systems and/or ensure that they are ISO registered, but of course, > the systems also apply to anything they manufacture. iso has /nothing/ to do with a manufacturer's tech specs. |