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From: jim beam on 11 Oct 2008 22:07 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote: > In article <q5v1f4935sj6f72br01tk1gaq52s61ma14(a)4ax.com>, > Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote: > >>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. >>> >>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long >>> gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the shelf >>> at Goober's gas station. >> What is so 'highly engineered' about a power steering system? > > I dunno, but go ahead--use the same power steering fluid in your new > Honda as you use in your 67 Chevy. See what happens. i second that...
From: jim beam on 11 Oct 2008 22:07 L Alpert wrote: > "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:dqKdndcpFsYjSW3VnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> L Alpert wrote: >>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >>> news:elmop-41CC57.17532810102008(a)news.x-privat.org... >>>> In article <prlue495c95rtnjifnpj92rfkg69viqeu7(a)4ax.com>, >>>> Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer does >>>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their own >>>>> factories. >>>> Sure they do. >>>> >>>> They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if you bypass >>>> their stuff, you see problems. >>>> >>>> Engine oil, probably not. >>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the past 30 >>> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, brake >>> fluid, oil, etc. >> i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my >> experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda z1. if >> you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it sounds like you >> haven't achieved full dilution. >> >> >>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other than >>> the label. >> rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do you "doubt" >> that the component quality used by honda under the hood is any better than >> frod? have you ever dissected a honda vs. non-honda spec igniter unit for >> instance? honda may not manufacture half their stuff directly, but they >> /do/ write the spec and /do/ undertake q.c. >> > > While specific components that are manufactured for specific applications > will be built for those applications, genric items that are manufactured to > a general specification and relabled as OEM are not. that statement is technically true... > This is something I am > quite familiar with, as I have been in the OEM industry for many years (non > automotive, but OEM non the less). but here's the problem, you're /presuming/ that to be always the case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't mean they all do.
From: L Alpert on 12 Oct 2008 07:08 "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message news:l46dnTZ7A4WGwWzVnZ2dnUVZ_ofinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >L Alpert wrote: >> "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:dqKdndcpFsYjSW3VnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>> L Alpert wrote: >>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >>>> news:elmop-41CC57.17532810102008(a)news.x-privat.org... >>>>> In article <prlue495c95rtnjifnpj92rfkg69viqeu7(a)4ax.com>, >>>>> Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car manufacturer >>>>>> does >>>>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their >>>>>> own >>>>>> factories. >>>>> Sure they do. >>>>> >>>>> They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if you >>>>> bypass >>>>> their stuff, you see problems. >>>>> >>>>> Engine oil, probably not. >>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>> past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, >>>> antifreeze, brake fluid, oil, etc. >>> i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my >>> experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda >>> z1. if you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it sounds >>> like you haven't achieved full dilution. >>> >>> >>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them >>>> other than the label. >>> rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do you >>> "doubt" that the component quality used by honda under the hood is >>> any better than frod? have you ever dissected a honda vs. >>> non-honda spec igniter unit for instance? honda may not >>> manufacture half their stuff directly, but they /do/ write the >>> spec and /do/ undertake q.c. >>> >> >> While specific components that are manufactured for specific >> applications will be built for those applications, genric items >> that are manufactured to a general specification and relabled as >> OEM are not. > > that statement is technically true... > > >> This is something I am quite familiar with, as I have been in the >> OEM industry for many years (non automotive, but OEM non the less). > > but here's the problem, you're /presuming/ that to be always the > case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't > mean they all do. > We make the same component for 4 different companies. Although each customer has a slightly different specification, the process is designed to meet them all. For anyone to mass manufacture a single component under multiple processes and conditions would have great cost implications. It is an economic reality. > >
From: L Alpert on 12 Oct 2008 07:12 "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message news:elmop-30CFB5.13340111102008(a)news.x-privat.org... > In article <%n4Ik.4646$Ws1.901(a)nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, > "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote: > >> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >> past 30 >> years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, antifreeze, >> brake fluid, >> oil, etc. >> >> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them other >> than the >> label. > > Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. > > Same with coolant. > > Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. > > They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. Long > gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's off the > shelf > at Goober's gas station. Systems are engineered using available standard materials. I have seen no indications that Honda has used systems that has forced or required a technological breakthrough in auto fluids.
From: L Alpert on 12 Oct 2008 07:18
"Bob Jones" <email(a)me.not> wrote in message news:L2cIk.419$%11.349(a)flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com... > > "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote in message > news:staIk.2307$Ei5.1384(a)flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com... >> >> "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:tPednYbirYmklmzVnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>> Retired VIP wrote: >>>> On Sat, 11 Oct 2008 13:34:01 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >>>> <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In article <%n4Ik.4646$Ws1.901(a)nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>, >>>>> "L Alpert" <alpertl(a)xxsbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>> past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, >>>>>> antifreeze, brake fluid, oil, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them >>>>>> other than the label. >>>>> Go ahead, then, use non-Honda ATF and tell us what you think. >>>>> >>>>> Same with coolant. >>>>> >>>>> Shoot, same with power steering fluid nowadays. >>>>> >>>>> They're all part of a complex system that's highly engineered. >>>>> Long gone are the days of everybody using the same stuff that's >>>>> off the shelf at Goober's gas station. >>>> >>>> What is so 'highly engineered' about a power steering system? >>>> Exactly >>>> what is there about Honda, Toyota, GM, Ford or Chrysler power >>>> steering >>>> fluid that makes it special? ATF fluid needs to supply the >>>> proper >>>> friction modifiers so there is a difference between Ford and GM >>>> ATF >>>> but if the after-market ATF has the proper modifiers, it will >>>> perform >>>> the same as the OEM stuff. >>>> >>>> I've been using Preston Anti-freeze (the green stuff) in my cars >>>> for >>>> the last 45 years and I have never had a engine or cooling system >>>> problem that could have been caused by the coolant. Why pay >>>> $15.00 a >>>> gallon for anti-freeze that carries a GM or Ford brand when I can >>>> get >>>> something just as good for half the price? >>>> >>>> Jack >>> >>> antifreeze with silicates [cheap corrosion inhibitors] cause much >>> sorter seal lives. there's increased abrasion of the seal >>> interface. >> >> The correct type of antifreeze can be purchased for any vehicle. >> > > But not all antifreeze of the same type are created equal for a > particular vehicle. The probability that Honda branded antifreeze is made on the same equipment with the same ingredients and with the same process as Prestone (or some other high volume manufacturer) is very high. There are many non-silcate brands available. > > |