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From: Bob Jones on 12 Oct 2008 12:23 > I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda branded > fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal experiences are a small > sample size as well, even if they differ from yours. > What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this kind of requirements. On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or a radiator.
From: L Alpert on 13 Oct 2008 08:36 "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message news:v8mdnepAQrvpjm_VnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >L Alpert wrote: >> "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message >> news:l46dnTZ7A4WGwWzVnZ2dnUVZ_ofinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>> L Alpert wrote: >>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message >>>> news:dqKdndcpFsYjSW3VnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>> L Alpert wrote: >>>>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:elmop-41CC57.17532810102008(a)news.x-privat.org... >>>>>>> In article <prlue495c95rtnjifnpj92rfkg69viqeu7(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>> Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>> manufacturer does >>>>>>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their >>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>> factories. >>>>>>> Sure they do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if >>>>>>> you bypass >>>>>>> their stuff, you see problems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Engine oil, probably not. >>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>> past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, >>>>>> antifreeze, brake fluid, oil, etc. >>>>> i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my >>>>> experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda >>>>> z1. if you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it >>>>> sounds like you haven't achieved full dilution. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them >>>>>> other than the label. >>>>> rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do >>>>> you "doubt" that the component quality used by honda under the >>>>> hood is any better than frod? have you ever dissected a honda >>>>> vs. non-honda spec igniter unit for instance? honda may not >>>>> manufacture half their stuff directly, but they /do/ write the >>>>> spec and /do/ undertake q.c. >>>>> >>>> While specific components that are manufactured for specific >>>> applications will be built for those applications, genric items >>>> that are manufactured to a general specification and relabled as >>>> OEM are not. >>> that statement is technically true... >>> >>> >>>> This is something I am quite familiar with, as I have been in the >>>> OEM industry for many years (non automotive, but OEM non the >>>> less). >>> but here's the problem, you're /presuming/ that to be always the >>> case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't >>> mean they all do. >>> >> >> We make the same component for 4 different companies. Although >> each customer has a slightly different specification, the process >> is designed to meet them all. >> >> For anyone to mass manufacture a single component under multiple >> processes and conditions would have great cost implications. It is >> an economic reality. > > indeed. but i return to the original point - i can tell you from > experience that two "generic" products used on hondas are not > generic at all - atf and p/s fluid. just because others practice > what you say, doesn't mean they all do. Manufacturing is manufacturing. Unless someone can point to a specification for Honda fluids that actually make them unique from other good and commonly used SAE equivalent components, I will continue to use those generics that are readily available. While you have historically given very good advice in this newsgroup and I respect your opinion on just about everything you post, I have to disagree with the assessment of "Honda only fluids". It is a common practice for just about every manufacturer to recommend in their manuals to use only their fluids as a way of increasing sales of these items. As I have stated before, my own experiences are quite the opposite of yours, even with the small sample size of 5 Honda vehicles over 30 years. >
From: jim beam on 13 Oct 2008 08:43 L Alpert wrote: > "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message > news:v8mdnepAQrvpjm_VnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >> L Alpert wrote: >>> "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message >>> news:l46dnTZ7A4WGwWzVnZ2dnUVZ_ofinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>> L Alpert wrote: >>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex(a)bad.example.net> wrote in message >>>>> news:dqKdndcpFsYjSW3VnZ2dnUVZ_sHinZ2d(a)speakeasy.net... >>>>>> L Alpert wrote: >>>>>>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop(a)nastydesigns.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:elmop-41CC57.17532810102008(a)news.x-privat.org... >>>>>>>> In article <prlue495c95rtnjifnpj92rfkg69viqeu7(a)4ax.com>, >>>>>>>> Retired VIP <jackj.extradots.180(a)windstream.net> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Scott, I don't believe that Honda or any other car >>>>>>>>> manufacturer does >>>>>>>>> quality control testing on anything produced outside of their >>>>>>>>> own >>>>>>>>> factories. >>>>>>>> Sure they do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> They spec power steering fluid and auto trans fluid, and if >>>>>>>> you bypass >>>>>>>> their stuff, you see problems. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Engine oil, probably not. >>>>>>> I have never had an issue with the Hondas I have owned over the >>>>>>> past 30 years or so using off the shelf items such as ATF, >>>>>>> antifreeze, brake fluid, oil, etc. >>>>>> i use c.o.t.s antifreeze, brake fluid etc., but not atf. in my >>>>>> experience, the only atf that makes a honda shift well is honda >>>>>> z1. if you've added non-honda fluid and it's been "ok", it >>>>>> sounds like you haven't achieved full dilution. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I seriously doubt that there is anything "special" about them >>>>>>> other than the label. >>>>>> rather than just "doubt", why don't you do some homework? do >>>>>> you "doubt" that the component quality used by honda under the >>>>>> hood is any better than frod? have you ever dissected a honda >>>>>> vs. non-honda spec igniter unit for instance? honda may not >>>>>> manufacture half their stuff directly, but they /do/ write the >>>>>> spec and /do/ undertake q.c. >>>>>> >>>>> While specific components that are manufactured for specific >>>>> applications will be built for those applications, genric items >>>>> that are manufactured to a general specification and relabled as >>>>> OEM are not. >>>> that statement is technically true... >>>> >>>> >>>>> This is something I am quite familiar with, as I have been in the >>>>> OEM industry for many years (non automotive, but OEM non the >>>>> less). >>>> but here's the problem, you're /presuming/ that to be always the >>>> case. it's not! just because some manufacturers do that, doesn't >>>> mean they all do. >>>> >>> We make the same component for 4 different companies. Although >>> each customer has a slightly different specification, the process >>> is designed to meet them all. >>> >>> For anyone to mass manufacture a single component under multiple >>> processes and conditions would have great cost implications. It is >>> an economic reality. >> indeed. but i return to the original point - i can tell you from >> experience that two "generic" products used on hondas are not >> generic at all - atf and p/s fluid. just because others practice >> what you say, doesn't mean they all do. > > Manufacturing is manufacturing. Unless someone can point to a > specification for Honda fluids that actually make them unique from > other good and commonly used SAE equivalent components, I will > continue to use those generics that are readily available. > > While you have historically given very good advice in this newsgroup > and I respect your opinion on just about everything you post, I have > to disagree with the assessment of "Honda only fluids". It is a > common practice for just about every manufacturer to recommend in > their manuals to use only their fluids as a way of increasing sales of > these items. we can agree on that - in principle. > As I have stated before, my own experiences are quite > the opposite of yours, even with the small sample size of 5 Honda > vehicles over 30 years. search the honda newsgroups - there's a tom of people disagree with you on the atf/psf thing. what atf do you use? and how often do you change it?
From: L Alpert on 13 Oct 2008 08:53 "Bob Jones" <email(a)me.not> wrote in message news:pwpIk.3148$as4.2210(a)nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com... >> I have had Honda vehicles for 30+ years, and never used any Honda >> branded fluids, and never had an issue, though my personal >> experiences are a small sample size as well, even if they differ >> from yours. >> > > What year is your Honda? Maybe older models are not subject to this > kind of requirements. > > On my 2005 service manual, it clearly say that non-Honda antifreeze > could lead to corrossion. I am not sure if Prestone will do that but > why take the chance. Antifreeze is much cheaper than a water pump or > a radiator. > '79 Accord, '82 Accord, '01 Accord, '02 Civic, '04 Accord (the '01 and '04 Accords are current). Non silicate DAT type antifreeze is all that is required for newer Honda vehicles, a type that every major manufacturer makes. Why would Honda require a coolant different than Audi, Nissan, Toyota, Subaru, Jaguar, Porsche or (place your brand of vehicle here)? Would all of these auto manufacturers as well as all of the others specify something different?
From: cuhulin on 13 Oct 2008 09:49
About eight months ago, I went looking for new windshield wiper refills for my 1978 Dodge van.There are four auto parts stores within about three miles of me.Autozone, NAPA, Advance, and O'Reilly's.(there are many more auto parts stores around here, but I will not drive all over town) Only O'Reilly's had the refills I needed. cuhulin |