From: Mrcheerful on
T i m wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 20:57:39 +0100, "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>>> I think tow bars are now included in the MOT but is that for /all/
>>> tow bars do we know (inc pre type approval)?
>>>
>>> If so I guess they would be looking to see they were attached
>>> soundly and be in god condition (not rusted away etc).
>>>
>>
>> older vehicle tow bar mot check is just that it looks vaguely safe
>> and is fixed on tight.
>>
> Thanks (and about all they could do I guess).
>
> We still haven't actually done anything constructive about the bar
> (waiting on a phone call right now).
>
> The big issue seems to be if this existing bar is suitable and the
> general consensus seems to think it's not (and I'd agree, 'as is' but
> that's not how we would leave it).
>
> The thing is, if a 'production' towbar has a main cross member (that
> carries the ball) of 60x40x3mm, how would the existing bar of 75mm
> diameter, 4mm thick wall compare over the same length? In fact it's
> 'doubled up' at the mounting brackets so you have two x 74mm tubes
> welded together and when we took it off yesterday it weighted a tonne
> so is not just 'decorative'. ;-)
>
> The current tube is bolted to the sides of the chassis using a very
> wide and contoured 8mm plate. The production towbar uses 60x60x6mm
> angle and whilst I can see that would be stiffer horizontally (side
> loads on the bar) it may not be as stiff vertically and certainly not
> as stiff all round as the existing plates with diagonal braces back to
> the chassis. Both bars bolt to the chassis using the same two bolts in
> the same two (existing) holes (x 2 sides).
>
> The main problem is both this and the only production offering we have
> had so far (for that model) would leave the tow ball some 200+mm too
> high and any drop-plate that big would also need considerable bracing
> at the bottom. Some of the heavier 4 hole adjustable plates might be
> ok but they are also expensive and overkill for this scenario (he
> can't tow anything heavier than 750kg without doing an additional (and
> expensive) 'trailer' test). The log splitter he has is 350kg gross, as
> is the small trailer they have up there.
>
> If he did go with the modded bar he would remove it if he sold the
> truck.
>
> Cheers, T i m

you might be able to go for a smaller drop plate and raise the tow hitch on
the trailer, sort of half each job. unless it is going for very long treks
or have very large loads then it is very unlikely that even a large drop
plate will give trouble, and even that scenario can be lessened by a large
wire rope breakaway cable (which can also double as an antitheft device.


From: T i m on
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:51:54 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
<nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote:


>you might be able to go for a smaller drop plate and raise the tow hitch on
>the trailer, sort of half each job.

Hmm, whilst that's ok in principal there are rules regarding heights
for both the tow ball on the towing vehicle and hitch on a trailer and
could make it difficult if you need to use a different tow vehicle
(and the Corsa now has a towbar). ;-)


> and unless it is going for very long treks
>or have very large loads then it is very unlikely that even a large drop
>plate will give trouble,

True but I wouldn't want to risk it, even if they were just pulling
stuff round the yard. However, with sufficient bracing it wouldn't be
a risk at all and the $100 question is 'do I want to be faffing about
making something /if/ I can buy something off the shelf and the answer
is (within financial and time constraints) 'not really'.

If it were mine then maybe things would be different.

> and even that scenario can be lessened by a large
>wire rope breakaway cable (which can also double as an antitheft device.

True.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. Is business so good out there right now people not need to make
any effort for a sale? I just rang another supplier and (long story
short) asked them if they could confirm the bar they were about to
supply me presented the tow ball mounting holes at ~400mm below the
chassis mounting holes. If they were able to do so we would be fairly
sure this is the right bar for this particular vehicle / model and so
worth us ordering it. They said (basically) that it would be 'too much
effort for them.. What if we undo the box, measure it and find it's
not ~400mm?" then I said it would simply mean neither of us had to
waste any time sending it out then sending it back (as I had provide
more than enough information to them and they seemed unwilling to do
the same for me). Ho hum ..
From: Duncan Wood on
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 10:25:19 +0100, T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 20:57:39 +0100, "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>>> I think tow bars are now included in the MOT but is that for /all/ tow
>>> bars do we know (inc pre type approval)?
>>>
>>> If so I guess they would be looking to see they were attached soundly
>>> and be in god condition (not rusted away etc).
>>>
>>
>> older vehicle tow bar mot check is just that it looks vaguely safe and
>> is
>> fixed on tight.
>>
> Thanks (and about all they could do I guess).
>
> We still haven't actually done anything constructive about the bar
> (waiting on a phone call right now).
>
> The big issue seems to be if this existing bar is suitable and the
> general consensus seems to think it's not (and I'd agree, 'as is' but
> that's not how we would leave it).
>
> The thing is, if a 'production' towbar has a main cross member (that
> carries the ball) of 60x40x3mm, how would the existing bar of 75mm
> diameter, 4mm thick wall compare over the same length? In fact it's
> 'doubled up' at the mounting brackets so you have two x 74mm tubes
> welded together and when we took it off yesterday it weighted a tonne
> so is not just 'decorative'. ;-)
>
> The current tube is bolted to the sides of the chassis using a very
> wide and contoured 8mm plate. The production towbar uses 60x60x6mm
> angle and whilst I can see that would be stiffer horizontally (side
> loads on the bar) it may not be as stiff vertically and certainly not
> as stiff all round as the existing plates with diagonal braces back to
> the chassis. Both bars bolt to the chassis using the same two bolts in
> the same two (existing) holes (x 2 sides).
>
> The main problem is both this and the only production offering we have
> had so far (for that model) would leave the tow ball some 200+mm too
> high and any drop-plate that big would also need considerable bracing
> at the bottom. Some of the heavier 4 hole adjustable plates might be
> ok but they are also expensive and overkill for this scenario (he
> can't tow anything heavier than 750kg without doing an additional (and
> expensive) 'trailer' test). The log splitter he has is 350kg gross, as
> is the small trailer they have up there.
>
> If he did go with the modded bar he would remove it if he sold the
> truck.
>
> Cheers, T i m
>

Stick a second hand adjustable plate on it, it'll easily handle 750kg,
e.g.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/dixon-bate-type-adjustable-tow-plate-ball-bar-/320572968428?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa3a34dec

There's always old land rover ones around.
From: T i m on
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:03:04 +0100, "Duncan Wood"
<nntpnews(a)dmx512.co.uk> wrote:


>Stick a second hand adjustable plate on it, it'll easily handle 750kg,
>e.g.
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/dixon-bate-type-adjustable-tow-plate-ball-bar-/320572968428?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa3a34dec
>
>There's always old land rover ones around.

We had considered them but ideally shouldn't need one /if/ we can find
a stock bar to suite (and we may have).

Also, looking at that particular eBay one I assume the smaller bit
carries the tow ball (at three positions or 2 if a 4 hole ball)) then
that part can be moved up / down on the other part that is bolted to
the vehicle. To do that it looks like you would need a fair drop plate
as the bars with the mounting holes look a long way apart?

The bar we are looking at seems to have a fairly small ball mounting
plate:

http://www.roughtrax4x4.com/?doc=11&cid=356

The same people do an adjustable plate but you can't see what there is
on the other side:

http://www.roughtrax4x4.com/?doc=16&cid=356&vid=1141

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I guess it wouldn't matter on a Landy / 4x4 or when towing
'agricultural stuff but I have Witter rubber mounted tow balls on my
cars and that keeps the trailer / hitch noise down (we used to tow
dinghy's all over the country). ;-)
From: Duncan Wood on
On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:07:02 +0100, T i m <news(a)spaced.me.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:03:04 +0100, "Duncan Wood"
> <nntpnews(a)dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> Stick a second hand adjustable plate on it, it'll easily handle 750kg,
>> e.g.
>> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/dixon-bate-type-adjustable-tow-plate-ball-bar-/320572968428?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa3a34dec
>>
>> There's always old land rover ones around.
>
> We had considered them but ideally shouldn't need one /if/ we can find
> a stock bar to suite (and we may have).
>
> Also, looking at that particular eBay one I assume the smaller bit
> carries the tow ball (at three positions or 2 if a 4 hole ball)) then
> that part can be moved up / down on the other part that is bolted to
> the vehicle. To do that it looks like you would need a fair drop plate
> as the bars with the mounting holes look a long way apart?
>
> The bar we are looking at seems to have a fairly small ball mounting
> plate:
>
> http://www.roughtrax4x4.com/?doc=11&cid=356
>

Ah, what's the original look like?

> The same people do an adjustable plate but you can't see what there is
> on the other side:
>
> http://www.roughtrax4x4.com/?doc=16&cid=356&vid=1141
>

A lot of the cheap commercial ones have the same 4 hole mountings on
either side.

> Cheers, T i m
>
> p.s. I guess it wouldn't matter on a Landy / 4x4 or when towing
> 'agricultural stuff but I have Witter rubber mounted tow balls on my
> cars and that keeps the trailer / hitch noise down (we used to tow
> dinghy's all over the country). ;-)

I was wondering why you'd need that, but then it occurred to me that I
only ever tow braked trailers, & they're inherently sprung, so no idea.