From: C. E. White on

"Steve Barker" <ichasetrains(a)> wrote in message
> Doing something wrong for decades, doesn't make it right.
How long have you owned a Jiffy Lube Franchise?


From: C. E. White on

<HLS(a)nospam.nix> wrote in message

> We have just ordered a new car, and with a cost of nearly $40,000,
> you can bet it will be pampered.
> Frequent oil and filter changes are not expensive, and -whether
> they are needed are not - help my peace of mind.

I assume that if you are pampering your car, you are using only the
best synthetic oil ($6 a quart) and the finest oil filter ($12). An
oil change with these items will cost you around $45, even if you do
it yourself. In 240,000 miles, you would need to do 80 3,000 mile oil
changes at a total cost of $3,600. Most auto manufacturers only
require good quality, API certified oil ($1.60 a quart) and a OE
quality filter ($4). If you do the changes the yourself, you'll spend
about $14 per oil change. If you do 5000 mile oil changes and use only
the required items, you will spend about $672 on oil changes in
240,000 miles. It seems to me that "pampering" your car would be a
great waste of money. I am guessing a $40,000 car with 240,000 miles
on the odometer will have to be at least 7 years old. How valuable is
a 7 year old car with 240,000 miles on the odometer? You could do a
lot of repairs for almost $3,000. Or $3000 would probably buy a pretty
decent extended warranty.

As I said before, I've never actually worn out an engine before I got
rid of a vehicle for other reasons. If you just perform basic routine
maintenance per the vehicle manufacturer's recommended normal service
schedule, it is likely that the engine will outlast the rest of the
car. Not much point in spending hundreds or even thousands extra just
to make sure you can send the car to the junk yard with a good engine.


From: SMS on
SnoMan wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 03:10:20 GMT, "Mark Jones"
> <noemail(a)> wrote:
>> I have been doing 5,000 miles on my 2004 F-150 and
>> plan to continue doing it that way. Oil quality has been
>> greatly improved to the point where 3,000 miles is now
>> a waste of money. The only time that I might consider
>> a 3,000 mile interval is if my truck was driven on a
>> construction site with a lot of dirt in the air.
> Quality does not prevent it from getting dirty and it is the dirty and
> acid that build up in oil and that cannot be filtered out that
> requires the change. Also most conventaion oil start to break down
> with a viscosity shift by 3K miles or so and if you did a flow test on
> you modern conventional oil after 5 K vs new you would likely be
> surprized and rethink this whole thing. New engine are harder on oil
> than ever these days.

Nope. Go look at the engine oil analysis done after 3K and 5K. No
difference in viscosity, acidity far below levels where any damage could
possibly occur, and suspended particulates well below levels where any
damage could possibly occur. Even at 6K there was virtually no difference.

Dark oil does not indicate the need for an oil change. The way modern
detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended
in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but
they cause the oil to darken. A non-detergent oil would stay clearer
than a detergent oil because all the soot would be left on the internal
engine parts and would create sludge. You never want to use something
like SAE 30 oil.

If you never changed your oil, eventually the oil would no longer be
able to suspend any more particles in the oil and sludge would form.
Fortunately, by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change
interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become
saturated. Remember, a good oil should get dirty as it does it's work
cleaning out the engine. The dispersant should stop all the gunk from
depositing in the oil pan.

Absolutely no benefit in 3K versus 5K, except perhaps piece of mind
knowing that you are changing your oil far more than necessary.
From: SMS on
HLS(a)nospam.nix wrote:

> Frequent oil and filter changes are not expensive, and -whether
> they are needed are not - help my peace of mind.

That's what it all comes down to, it's not the fact that changing oil at
3K versus 5K will make even the tiniest difference in the longevity of
the engine, it's all psychological. The Jiffy Lube type places must hire
psychologists to serve on their advertising formulation teams.
From: Steve Barker on
The plain and simple fact is that MOST cars now days don't get fully warmed
up EVERY time they are driven. And that puts them in the severe service
definition. Period. If a car doesn't get driven 30 minutes at highway
speeds, the oil never reaches full operating temp and needs to be changed
every 3K. To extend this is just asking for problems.

Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
controlling YOUR car.
Check out:

"C. E. White" <cewhite3(a)> wrote in message
> 3000 mile oil changes are recommeneded for the following "Special
> Operating Conditions" (refer to the above statement - occasional operation
> in one of these condition does not make it necessary to decrease the oil
> change interval):
> * Towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top carrier
> * Extensive idling and/or low-speed driving for long distances as in heavy
> commercial use such as delivery, taxi, patrol car, or livery
> * Operating in dusty conditions such as unpaved or dusty roads
> * Off-road operation
> * Use of E85 50% of the time or greater (flex fuel vehicles only)
> Again, these conditions only apply if you operate your car "primarily" in
> one of these conditions. Most people aren't towing something "most of the
> time," most people aren't using their cars for Pizza delivery most of the
> time, most people don't operate their cars on dusty roads most of the
> time, or off road most of the time.
> Clearly Ford is trying to walk a fine line. They are trying to counteract
> the Jiffy Lube 3000 mile oil change propoganda for average drivers without
> giving free rein to people who actually do need to more frequently change
> their oil.
> Ed