Bodywork repairs following accident - paint match
in [Classic Cars]
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From: stephen.hull on 4 Jul 2010 12:41 In message <i0oeid$ks0$3(a)news.eternal-september.org> "Jerry" <mapson.scarts(a)btinternet.INVALID> wrote: > ><stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message >news:74cf383151.Steve(a)btinternet.com... > ><snip> >: >: I also depends on the quality of the paint, cheaper varieties >: don't last as long as expensive ones. Car manufacturing plants >: always use top quality paint and if it is a silver base >metallic >: it lasts for years. >: > >In theory, in practice it is far from as simple as that, even >were there is only one officially recorded code for the shade of >colour there can still be deviations even with the paint on >factory fresh cars... > >Sorry Steve but you have obviously lead a very insular >professional life if you really believe what you are saying. Yes I know that and I know you can even spray the same colour mix and produce a different colour shade and I have to agree to assume other variables are in place but unless the op can actually inform us as to why the colour is wrong we won't know about the other variable. My point is without other variables being problematic the colour should be doable if the sprayer was working on original factory paint work, but because we don't know we have to assume otherwise. I have sprayed and achieved a perfect match with cheap paint and the colour matched perfectly, however a few months down the line the finish became dull and faded badly. This tends not to happen with quality paint as car manufactures won't use netto paint for this very reason. Stephen. -- http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
From: steve robinson on 4 Jul 2010 13:38 stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: > In message <i0oeid$ks0$3(a)news.eternal-september.org> > "Jerry" <mapson.scarts(a)btinternet.INVALID> wrote: > > > > ><stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message > > news:74cf383151.Steve(a)btinternet.com... > > > > <snip> > > : > > : I also depends on the quality of the paint, cheaper varieties > > : don't last as long as expensive ones. Car manufacturing plants > > : always use top quality paint and if it is a silver base > > metallic > > : it lasts for years. > > : > > > > In theory, in practice it is far from as simple as that, even > > were there is only one officially recorded code for the shade of > > colour there can still be deviations even with the paint on > > factory fresh cars... > > > > Sorry Steve but you have obviously lead a very insular > > professional life if you really believe what you are saying. > > Yes I know that and I know you can even spray the same colour mix > and produce a different colour shade and I have to agree to assume > other variables are in place but unless the op can actually inform > us as to why the colour is wrong we won't know about the other > variable. > > My point is without other variables being problematic the colour > should be doable if the sprayer was working on original factory > paint work, but because we don't know we have to assume otherwise. > > I have sprayed and achieved a perfect match with cheap paint and > the colour matched perfectly, however a few months down the line > the finish became dull and faded badly. This tends not to happen > with quality paint as car manufactures won't use netto paint for > this very reason. > > Stephen. Car manufacturers use the cheapest paint they can get away with
From: steve robinson on 4 Jul 2010 13:43 stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: > In message <xn0gw7xg4w7a3f002(a)news.eternal-september.org> > "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: > > > stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: > > > >> In message <xn0gw7bbnjcfsi003(a)news.eternal-september.org> > >> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> > wrote: > > > > >> > stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: > >> > > >> >> In message <xn0gw6xvq11f2n001(a)news.eternal-september.org> > >> >> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> > > >> > There could be several reasons for this considering the age of > the >> > vehicle one possiblity could be the paints being > incompatable >> > (solvent versus waterbased or two pack > catalised ) . >> > > >> Yes there could be a similar scenario here but if the sprayer has > >> chosen the correct paint type which is reasonable to assume > >> because the formulae is still readily available there would be no > >> issue, especially as there is only one colour shade as previously > >> discussed. > > > > >> Stephen. > > > > There may only be one colour but its shading will differ between > > manufacturers even if the same bs ral or pantone codes are used . > > > > We have this issue all the time with tints > > I'm sorry you are experiencing problems with tints but the reason > BS and RAL colour formulation were created is so that we all have > the same colour representation, this is why BS and RAL was set up > to achieve because of colour mismatches. > > The colour representation should exactly match from manufacturer > to manufacturer, but it practice is doesn't. I am well aware of the reasoning for paint shade standardisation and i pointed out that between manufacturers they vary When your trying to colour match its often the case your actually useing printed cards which are pantones which further confuses the situation
From: stephen.hull on 4 Jul 2010 13:53 In message <xn0gw8pyjhm7e9001(a)news.eternal-september.org> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: >stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: > >> In message <xn0gw7xg4w7a3f002(a)news.eternal-september.org> >> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: >> >> > stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: >> > >> >> In message <xn0gw7bbnjcfsi003(a)news.eternal-september.org> >> >> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> >> wrote: >> > > >> >> > stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> In message <xn0gw6xvq11f2n001(a)news.eternal-september.org> >> >> >> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> >> >> >> > There could be several reasons for this considering the age of >> the >> > vehicle one possiblity could be the paints being >> incompatable >> > (solvent versus waterbased or two pack >> catalised ) . >> > >> >> Yes there could be a similar scenario here but if the sprayer has >> >> chosen the correct paint type which is reasonable to assume >> >> because the formulae is still readily available there would be no >> >> issue, especially as there is only one colour shade as previously >> >> discussed. >> > > >> >> Stephen. >> > >> > There may only be one colour but its shading will differ between >> > manufacturers even if the same bs ral or pantone codes are used . >> > >> > We have this issue all the time with tints >> >> I'm sorry you are experiencing problems with tints but the reason >> BS and RAL colour formulation were created is so that we all have >> the same colour representation, this is why BS and RAL was set up >> to achieve because of colour mismatches. >> >> The colour representation should exactly match from manufacturer >> to manufacturer, but it practice is doesn't. > >I am well aware of the reasoning for paint shade standardisation and >i pointed out that between manufacturers they vary > >When your trying to colour match its often the case your actually >useing printed cards which are pantones which further confuses the >situation Thats why some colour cards are painted in the actual paint and not printed, I have dozens and the colour representation is the same on them all, at least the RAL and BS ones anyway. Stephen. -- http://www.stephen.hull.btinternet.co.uk Coach painting tips and techniques + Land Rover colour codes "Whatever is rightly done, however humble, is noble". Henry Royce
From: Cynic on 5 Jul 2010 08:43
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:53:01 +0100, stephen.hull(a)btinternet.com wrote: >>> I'm sorry you are experiencing problems with tints but the reason >>> BS and RAL colour formulation were created is so that we all have >>> the same colour representation, this is why BS and RAL was set up >>> to achieve because of colour mismatches. >>> The colour representation should exactly match from manufacturer >>> to manufacturer, but it practice is doesn't. >>I am well aware of the reasoning for paint shade standardisation and >>i pointed out that between manufacturers they vary >>When your trying to colour match its often the case your actually >>useing printed cards which are pantones which further confuses the >>situation >Thats why some colour cards are painted in the actual paint and >not printed, I have dozens and the colour representation is the >same on them all, at least the RAL and BS ones anyway. I have read that cars that are factory sprayed by hand instead of robot will use only one person to spray all the external parts. The reason being that two professional spraypainters will produce visibly different finishes despite using exactly the same paint. It is one reason why the top-end car factories are moving away from hand spraying (which was seen as producing a better quality of finish), and instead using the same type of robot spraypainters as used for normal low-end cars - because modern robots do a better job than a person can achieve. There is therefore little chance of any spraypainter producing exactly the same paint-job as was put on in a factory over 20 years previously regardless of how well the paint matches. It is only one part of the equation. It is also quite likely that the rest of the car has been subjected to multiple waxing, polishing and cleaning cycles as well as being abraded by atmospheric grit and dust over all those years. I should think therefore that a *perfect* match is not achievable, and how far from the ideal is acceptable would be the subjective opinion of the owner. -- Cynic |