From: Conor on
In article <bhtbj55vhepsvpdk5o5ppboa351ji6il52(a)>, Cynic says...

> I have never been trained on high vehicles. Do the instructors do any
> bridge training work?

Why would they need to other than "make sure you know the height of your
vehicle and observe warning signs."

> I suspect that that particular driver will now be far more aware of
> bridges than you are!

I doubt it. As a HGV driver, I've never not been aware of them.


I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody equally.
From: Ian Dalziel on
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:19:40 GMT, James Martin(a) wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:48:17 +0000, johannes
><johs(a)> wrote:
>>Ian Dalziel wrote:
>>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:51:06 +0000, johannes
>>> <johs(a)> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >Mr X wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> "johannes" <johs(a)> wrote in message
>>> >> news:4B35313B.5C9447E3(a)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Ian Dalziel wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:25:09 +0000, johannes
>>> >> >> <johs(a)> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >Mr X wrote:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >[...]
>>> >> >> >> No I've never been a professional driver and nor do I want to be.
>>> >> >> >> I love driving, thanks to all the gadgets in my car.
>>> >> >> >> Sat Nav is great and I'm sure that in the future there will be a way
>>> >> >> >> of
>>> >> >> >> connecting it so the car drives itself to the destination with the
>>> >> >> >> driver
>>> >> >> >> only having to intervene now and again, rather like a autopilot on a
>>> >> >> >> plane.
>>> >> >> >> As you dislike modernity so much why do you own a car when you have
>>> >> >> >> two good
>>> >> >> >> legs?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >I prefer to 'understand' the route rather than being passively directed
>>> >> >> >to
>>> >> >> >the destination. E.g. when I am a passenger, then I easily looses the
>>> >> >> >route
>>> >> >> >because I don't have to know. But afterwards I feel frustrated by not
>>> >> >> >knowing
>>> >> >> >the exact route.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> How would a satnav prevent you from understanding the route?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > It doesn't, but you don't have to. As I said it's the difference between
>>> >> > being a
>>> >> > passenger and a driver. Do London Taxi drivers use satnav?
>>> >> I've certainly seem them doing so. Many of them do not know some of the
>>> >> more minor roads in outer London in any case.
>>> >
>>> >OK, so it's a 'maybe'. At the moment I don't feel that I need a satnav.
>>> I'm sure you don't. I don't either, but I find it useful. What I was
>>> disagreeing with was the pompous assertion that possession of a satnav
>>> has converted me into some variety of brassica incapable of navigating
>>> by any other means.
>>Maybe that was another poster than me. What I was disagreeing with was the
>>pompous assertion that I was technologically backward and old fashioned.

>Many people seem to think that if you do not posess all the latest
>useless gadgets you are technologically backward and old fashioned but
>it is nice to see your bank statement when it comes each month and
>see the balance thanks to not spending stupid money on gadgetry that
>you nither need or want .

Straw men. Post a link where someone has said that. You can't, but I
can post one where you said that satnav users "wouldn't have a clue".

Not only are you the one who struck a spurious pose of superiority and
started throwing insults, you are a bloody liar.


Ian D
From: Ian Dalziel on
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 08:47:49 +0000, Roland Perry <roland(a)>

>In message <MPG.259f3e175029fefd989aa9(a)>, at
>21:25:20 on Fri, 25 Dec 2009, Conor <conor(a)> remarked:
>>It is also far safer navigating by one than driving
>>down the road trying to follow the route you'd planned over several
>>pages with the A to Z you're holding in one hand at the same time as
>>steering with the other whilst trying to read street names as well as
>>see where you're going.
>A satnav is also far safer than driving with a paper bag over your head.
>I hope you never did that either.

Driving with a paper bag over the head is only dangerous for those of
us who haven't committed every inch of the UK road system to memory
the way James has.


Ian D
From: Ian Dalziel on
On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 11:35:05 +0000, Cynic <cynic_999(a)>

>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:43:25 +0000, Ian Dalziel
><iandalziel(a)> wrote:
>>>If you are driving a car, you have no *need* to detect bridges. You
>>>can safely assume that they will pose no obstacle to you so long as
>>>you remain on the carriageway as usual. Consequently, you would have
>>>absolutely no idea whether you have ever failed to detect the presence
>>>of a bridge or not.
>>Bollocks. Driving into solid objects is a bad idea, however modern
>>your "safety equipment".
>What a completely irrelevant reply to the point I was making.

It is not irrelevant. You have to avoid solid bits in the way of the
vehicle you are driving. However low your vehicle, there are solid
bits intruding into the carriageway wich it is advisable to avoid. I
have one vehicle in which I have to be aware of overhead clearance - I
have never come close to hitting anything in that, and I am not a
particularly good driver, nor have I had the specific training which a
bus driver must have.

If there is some reason why an obstacle is particularly hard to spot,
then additional warning devices can be justified. Most bridges are
about as hard to spot as a great big solid object like, well, a


Ian D
From: johnwright ""john" on
Denis McMahon wrote:
> Cynic wrote:
>> Maybe you should remove all the safety equipment from your car and fit
>> a huge spike to the centre of the steering wheel. After all, provided
>> you never make a mistake, you'll be no worse off.
> I actually believe that replacing airbags and seat belts with that spike
> would make the roads a lot safer.
> Knowing that you're going to be the first one to die if you get it wrong
> would keep a lot of drivers more focused.

You have that in your own car I take it then.


I'm not apathetic... I just don't give a sh** anymore

?John Wright

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