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From: Squashme on 21 May 2010 05:56
On 21 May, 09:51, ChelseaTractorMan <mr.c.trac...(a)hotmail.co.uk>
> On 21 May 2010 08:41:03 GMT, Adrian <toomany2...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Central London is a great place to shop
> >No, it isn't. It's hell on earth.
> wonderful place.
Adrian has to dodge the pavement cyclists and RLJers.
From: Brimstone on 21 May 2010 06:06
"Derek C" <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> On 21 May, 09:08, Squashme <squas...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 21 May, 08:59, Derek C <del.copel...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> > On 20 May, 17:01, ChelseaTractorMan <mr.c.trac...(a)hotmail.co.uk>
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Thu, 20 May 2010 16:50:03 +0100, "mileburner"
>> > > <milebur...(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > > >But it does seem to be the thickos who insist on driving everywhere.
>> > > >One of
>> > > >them said to me a while ago, "I drive everywhere otherwise people
>> > > >will think
>> > > >I am poor". Yet she often does not have the money for fuel. I hope
>> > > >this
>> > > >illustrates the type of person I mean.
>> > > which probably represents a small % of people, most drive because its
>> > > convenient, quicker, private, easy to carry loads, gets to places
>> > > with
>> > > no PT etc etc.
>> > > Somebody I argued with about airtravel told me the carbon cost was
>> > > zero for him because he is travelling in the 20% of seats otherwise
>> > > empty and "the plane was going anyway". This is of course (rather
>> > > pathetic) self deception, you can get it from car haters, car lovers
>> > > and all other points of view.
>> > > --
>> > I only use my car for the journeys I need to make, and at the times I
>> > need to make them.
>> > Apart from in the rush hour, large engined, multi-seater buses and
>> > trains trundle around the countryside all day with only about three
>> > old age pensioners with bus passes and a couple of school age children
>> > on board. Is that really so green?
>> > I do ride a bicycle, but only to keep fit and to enjoy the
>> > countryside. I might commute to work on it if the journey was less
>> > than about 5 miles and it's not pouring with rain. Unfortunately I
>> > have not had a job that close to my home for years. My last job was 16
>> > miles away via two motorways, or 18 miles by the back roads. That took
>> > about about 25 minutes each way by car, two hours by a bus service
>> > that meanderers through every housing estate in the county, and I
>> > would guess about an hour and a half by bike, after which I would be
>> > too knackered to do much work.
>> > Derek C
>> Yes, of course, when our grandparents and grandparents were alive,
>> very few of them ever managed to get to work. The distances were just
>> too huge. Thank God we had an empire!- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> When my grandparents and great-grandparents (I assume that is what
> your meant) were alive, most people worked for small and medium sized
> family run businesses in their local areas, often within walking
> distance of their homes. These have unfortunately been taken over, or
> forced out of business, by soul-less multi-national companies who are
> only interested in the bottom line and getting the cheapest possibly
> labour forces.
> Most working class families lived in rented accomodation in those
> days, so if they had to move to another area to find work, they just
> moved to another rented property. Most people own their own houses
> these days, so if you have to move to another area, you get stung for
> estate agents and soliticitors fees, not to mention giving the
> Treasury several thousand pounds in stamp duty (not a tax!), if you
> buy a similar sized house. In the London area even quite modest homes
> are above the stamp duty threshold. You are stuffed either way, moving
> house by stamp duty, and commuting by fuel duty and VAT. The only
> winner is the taxman.
My grandparents lived in West Ealing, London from 1934 until their deaths in
the early 1970s. My grandfather was a jobbing carpenter working on film sets
and exhibitions. He travelled by bicycle and public transport, to Elstree,
Borhamwood, Denham, Pinewood and all the other film studios surrounding
London plus the major exhibition centres.
He never learned to drive a car.
From: Brimstone on 21 May 2010 06:20
"Adrian" <toomany2cvs(a)gmail.com> wrote in message
> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying:
>> My grandparents lived in West Ealing, London from 1934 until their
>> deaths in the early 1970s. My grandfather was a jobbing carpenter
>> working on film sets and exhibitions. He travelled by bicycle and public
>> transport, to Elstree, Borhamwood, Denham, Pinewood and all the other
>> film studios surrounding London plus the major exhibition centres.
> He'd have gone to the NEC, GMEX or even Excel by bike, carrying power
More likely by public transport.
AFAIR he left his tools at his current place of work, or had them supplied.
I don't recall him carrying them to and fro on a daily basis.
The NEC (assuming you mean the one near Brum) from west London is a bit far
for a daily commute, even by car and made worse by being utterly boring.
From: Brimstone on 21 May 2010 06:22
"Derek C" <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> On 21 May, 10:41, ChelseaTractorMan <mr.c.trac...(a)hotmail.co.uk>
>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:38:19 -0700 (PDT), Derek C
>> <del.copel...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> >I could be even more cynical and suggest that the prudent 'Saviour of
>> >the World' lined himself up for a cushy and highly paid job in the
>> >banking sector
>> he probably will because the financial sectors of the world realize
>> he was a main architect of the rescue plan that abated what could have
>> been a 1930 style recession and bank total collapse. My guess is the
> You obviously have a much higher opinion of Gordo than I do!
Even his opponents consider him to be a competent technician. Sadly too few
technicians are good at actually running anything.
From: mileburner on 21 May 2010 06:57
"ChelseaTractorMan" <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> On Thu, 20 May 2010 18:05:48 +0100, "mileburner"
> <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> Somebody I argued with about airtravel told me the carbon cost was
>>> zero for him because he is travelling in the 20% of seats otherwise
>>> empty and "the plane was going anyway". This is of course (rather
>>> pathetic) self deception, you can get it from car haters, car lovers
>>> and all other points of view.
>>Ah yes good old self-deception...
>>"I *have* to drive, there is no other way of getting there".
> another car hater had a long term argument with me over that, in the
> end he killfiled me rather than see he was wrong. If your interests
> lie outside of cities, its often literally true and more often
> practically true that car is the only sensible choice. PT works well
> with large volumes of people going to the same place, for the most
> popular pastimes in the UK, walking, fishing, birdwatching, field
> sports etc not using a car is masochism.
I don't deny that the car can be the most sensible and practical choice, but
that is considerably different to "having" to drive because I "have" to. The
way in which some of the autophiles go on, you would think that the world
would cease to exist if they could not drive a car for their oh-so important