From: Adrian on
"mileburner" <mileburner(a)> gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

>> Plus, of course, the fluidity in people's careers.
>> In the time I've lived in this relatively immediate area, my "normal
>> place of work" has been in <thinks> at least seven different places,
>> across a radius of about 40 miles, in several different directions.
>> 'erself has been based in a similar number, mostly in one (easily PT
>> commutable) direction.
>> I'd love to know how that particular circle should be squared.

> My own place of work is about 10 metres from my bedroom and 2 metres
> from my kitchen.

So was one of mine. Well, not YOUR bedroom, clearly...

> You make your choices...

Indeed. And I'm bloody glad that I've moved on from what I found to be
fairly dispiriting. I find the separation of having a dedicated office,
elsewhere, vital.
From: JNugent on
ChelseaTractorMan wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 16:07:55 +0100, JNugent
> <JN(a)> wrote:
>>> places where transport infrastructure is in place and adjacent,
>>> preferably in, centres of population. Not 20 miles down a motorway.
>> Offhand, can you name a shopping centre that is twenty or more miles from the
>> nearest town?
> It was a figure of speech, Bluewater is about 20 miles from the centre
> of London, people now travel round the M25 to visit it.

It's only about 2 miles from the centre of Dartford. Four from Grays. Six
from Gravesend. Seven from Bexley. Only about nine miles from Dagenham and
eight from Hornchurch (and Lakeside is even nearer for those).

Do you think the councils in those areas welcome car-borne shoppers as
effusively as they should?

From: JNugent on
ChelseaTractorMan wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 16:07:17 +0100, JNugent
> <JN(a)> wrote:
>>> do not give planning permission to shopping centres along motorways,
>>> zone retail areas in the middle of population centres.
>> And would people be able to get there easily by car, threading their way
>> through bus-lanes, red-for-five-minutes-traffic-lights, sabotaged
>> carriageways, spy cameras, etc?
> you go into central London by train

Retail centres should be in the *centre of London*, you say?

I hadn't realised quite how radical your suggestions were going to be.
From: JNugent on
ChelseaTractorMan wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 16:15:46 +0100, JNugent
> <JN(a)> wrote:
>>> Central London is a great place to shop, you go by train. Bluewater is
>>> souless, you have to worry about drink driving if you do more than
>>> shop. Sadly all our bigger shops have decamped to Bluewater so the
>>> local high streets are dying. Then when it comes to bank holidays and
>>> pre Christmas the motorways round the two places gridlock with
>>> shoppers. I understand the centres of many US cities have died due to
>>> the out of town mall.
>> Over the last few decades, do you think councils have handled car-borne
>> shoppers as well as they should have?
> I do not think shopping in central London by car makes a lot of sense
> except in unusual circumstances,

I'm not talking about Central London.

Not many people have travelled into Central London (from outside it,
obviously) for their grocery shopping since the days of Samuel Pepys, surely?

> I go in by train usually. I of course
> do not buy things like sacks of potatoes. There are car parks and at
> the weekend there's no congestion charge.

From: JNugent on
ChelseaTractorMan wrote:
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 15:57:59 +0100, JNugent
> <JN(a)> wrote:
>>> does anybody in the 21st century actually believe that anybody in the
>>> labour party or anywhere sees cars as a class issue? The whole reason
>>> politicians try to discourage car use is precisely because everybody
>>> has one. The idea Blair and Brown did not know that is ridiculous.
>> To an extent, you are right. For the Labour Party, it is true that
>> car-ownership and use isn't *only* a class issue.
>> But it *is* a class issue for them
> how can it be when poor people generally have cars?

Don't assume omniscience and rationality on the part of class warriors.