Courtesy too far.
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From: Mortimer on 11 May 2010 06:52 "Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote in message news:hsbc2o$v14$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > Indeed. Small minded people like the feeling of power they get from > holding up the majority of traffic in an area in order to let one car out > early, followed by misplaced smugness in thinking that they have done > something good, with no thought to the jam they are helping create behind > them. If there is a lot of traffic on the major road, it is better that they are held up for a few seconds while a car is let out from the side road, than that the car on the side road has to wait several minutes for a gap in the major road traffic. If there is a car waiting to turn right from a major road to a minor road, blocking traffic behind it that wants to go straight on, then it is better that oncoming traffic is delayed a few seconds to let the turning car complete its manouevre than that the traffic behind it has to wait a long time until someone lets the car turn. If it can be done by creating a gap ahead of you by gradually slowing, and then let the car out without you yourself coming to a complete halt, then so much the better. You will then accelerate back up to the car that's ahead of you, everyone else will do likewise, and no-one will be delayed at all in their overall journey. The NZ system seems perverse because it is blurring the line between major road and minor road. Instead of keeping it simple and saying "if you are on the major road you are not *required* to give way to anyone" you have a situation where you say "unless you are turning, in which case you on the major road must give way to turning traffic on the minor road. And you also have the problem of traffic that is going straight ahead and overtakes the right-turning car on its left, only to find that a car has pulled out in front of it from a side road. Thus the car on the side road has to check that not only the right-turning car but also any straight-on cars on the major road have stopped to let it out. Major road should be "major", not "major except in some circumstances".
From: Zimmy on 11 May 2010 06:59 "ChelseaTractorMan" <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:jbdiu59cim0hkng8fgpo1b1826os8bsd6h(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 11 May 2010 11:38:14 +0100, "Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote: > >> with no thought to the jam they are helping create behind them. > > you think letting people out causes jams? Yes, it can do, especially in the case where you have a main road with several side roads in a row joining it. Progress on the main road comes to a standstill while all those "courteous" people in front of you give each of the side roads priority over the main road. Thus it is MUCH quicker to divert to the side roads and rejoin at the last side road. Z
From: Zimmy on 11 May 2010 07:07 "ChelseaTractorMan" <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message news:apciu590eqadlb6i1dgcbuocdr1eu61pkn(a)4ax.com... > On Tue, 11 May 2010 11:34:16 +0100, "Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote: > >>It does say that those with the lines should give way and that you should >>not impede other road users. > > so you are claiming the HC tells us to never let people out from side > roads? No, I am claiming what I said. I often "let people out" but only if it doesn't significantly impede the flow of traffic behind me. The HC and the painted lines are there to keep things moving as efficiently as possible, and it is usually best to obey them. I'd rather wait a while to get out into a fast moving main road than immediately be let out into a crawling main road because further along "courteous" people are slowing everything up. Z
From: ChelseaTractorMan on 11 May 2010 07:12 On Tue, 11 May 2010 11:18:24 +0100, Mike Barnes <mikebarnes(a)bluebottle.com> wrote: >Perhaps the difference is that I'm talking about a quiet road where the >emerging driver doesn't have any problem that "letting them out" would >help with. "my" own road that I mentioned has a couple of issues. There is nearly always at least one van parked on the pavement* near the junction obstructing the view along the "main" road so its quite helpful to only have to look the one way with the bonus that the fact the other driver flashed you out at that time means less (but not no!) chance a car is coming as you edge out. The "minor" road also has lots of parked cars, which means that pulling in alongside a waiting to emerge car often leaves you nowhere to go. So although its lowish traffic its nice to be let out. I also feel "after you" approaches help foster good driver attitude**. * remember the days cars parked on junctions got tickets, rather than cars overstaying in metered bays get tickets? :-( **this morning I stopped for a woman with pushchair, there was no other traffic except a bus at a stop in the opposite direction. There was a pedestrian reservation. Excessive pointless courtesy? Some would say yes. Some would say more dangerous than letting her sort it out herself. She was talking on her mobile (yep, crossing road with a child and on the phone!) She didn't notice I had stopped at first, the bus did and flashed as it started to move. She then crossed, I reckon that's an inattentive pedestrian in charge of a child got out of harms way. Job done! >Unless they're extremely impatient, to the extent that a >couple of seconds matter. I wonder how many more people would be alive today if they had not had the crazy idea that a few seconds or a minute or two on a journey mattered? Or possibly more to the point, that their masculinity depended on being first and/or quick. -- Mike. .. . Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
From: Mortimer on 11 May 2010 07:14
"Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote in message news:hsbdao$45q$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > > "ChelseaTractorMan" <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message > news:jbdiu59cim0hkng8fgpo1b1826os8bsd6h(a)4ax.com... >> On Tue, 11 May 2010 11:38:14 +0100, "Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote: >> >>> with no thought to the jam they are helping create behind them. >> >> you think letting people out causes jams? > > Yes, it can do, especially in the case where you have a main road with > several side roads in a row joining it. Progress on the main road comes to > a standstill while all those "courteous" people in front of you give each > of the side roads priority over the main road. Thus it is MUCH quicker to > divert to the side roads and rejoin at the last side road. But if you don't give way to trafifc on side roads occasionally, it will have to sit there for a long time until there happens to be a gap in the traffic on the major road. Letting people out from time to time is fairer as it lets all the traffic move while still giving priority to traffic on the major road. It is when the balance is wrong and too many cars are let out of side roads that traffic on the major road starts to suffer badly. |