From: John on

"Mortimer" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
news:rvGdnWEI2cR7UnTWnZ2dnUVZ8gydnZ2d(a)brightview.co.uk...
> "John" <Who90nospam(a)ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:h0kGn.7651$7s5.1480(a)newsfe20.ams2...
>>
>> I largely agree - but I do get annoyed with people who seem intent upon
>> reversing the normal well understood priorities and generally causing
>> lots of ambiguities. eg. If turning right into 'my' road - then please do
>> so - don't hold back and start waving me out - you won't hear my
>> insults - but I will be making them.
>
> If I've been waiting for ages to pull out from a side road into a major
> road, and someone finally takes pity on me and stops to let me out, then
> it won't be insults but thanks that they'd hear if they could hear what I
> was mouthing.
>
> One thing I always do if someone lets me out is make damn sure that I
> actually accelerate up to the speed that they were doing. So often you let
> someone pull out and they repay the kindness by dawdling along once they
> are on the road ahead of you instead of getting up to speed nice and
> quickly.

.............or they feel obliged to be helpful and keep stopping to let
people into the queue!


From: Man at B&Q on
On May 11, 7:15 pm, "John" <Who90nos...(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Mortimer" <m...(a)privacy.net> wrote in message
>
> news:CdmdndyyCu6wDnTWnZ2dnUVZ7vidnZ2d(a)brightview.co.uk...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "loopy livernose" <ifyouwanttoemai...(a)askfor.my.address> wrote in message
> >news:6%fGn.2430$4Z4.1283(a)newsfe13.ams2...
>
> >> "Zimmy" <z...(a)y.x> wrote in message
> >>news:hsc0c3$nop$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>> "ChelseaTractorMan" <mr.c.trac...(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>>news:fldiu51mu3qfaptsh2k6a546v0foijjnln(a)4ax.com...
>
> >>>> **this morning I stopped for a woman with pushchair, there was no
> >>>> other traffic except a bus at a stop in the opposite direction. There
> >>>> was a pedestrian reservation. Excessive pointless courtesy? Some would
> >>>> say yes. Some would say more dangerous than letting her sort it out
> >>>> herself.  She was talking on her mobile (yep, crossing road with a
> >>>> child and on the phone!) She didn't notice I had stopped at first, the
> >>>> bus did and flashed as it started to move. She then crossed, I reckon
> >>>> that's an inattentive pedestrian in charge of a child got out of harms
> >>>> way. Job done!
>
> >>> I know of a case where a schoolgirl was flashed to cross the road at a
> >>> busy junction outside a school. She trusted the driver and ran across
> >>> but
> >>> did not realise the traffic coming the other way weren't stopping. Two
> >>> broken legs.
>
> >>> Z
>
> >> there's a section in the highway code for pedestrians too..  so a car
> >> warned her he was there, but stationary,  and she didn't check the other
> >> way on a two way road?  I fail to see how its a drivers fault..  (apart
> >> from driving past a school at chucking out time, the driver who hit her
> >> was obviously driving too fast for the conditions...
>
> > I tend to flash as an "I will wait for you" signal long before I've
> > stopped - as soon as I make the decision that I will give way to the
> > car/pedestrian. The aim is that if I give them enough warning they will be
> > able to complete their manoeuvre before I get there and I won't even need
> > to
> > come to a complete halt. I usually do a quick sanity check that *as far as
> > I
> > am aware* there are no other hazards, but all I am signalling is "I will
> > give way", not "it is safe".
>
> > If I'm approaching a pedestrian and an oncoming car flashes, I will always
> > try to stop, even if I wasn't planning to do so, because it requires
> > *both*
> > directions to give way in order for it to be safe for the pedestrian to
> > get
> > right across. It's one of the first thoughts on my mind when I see a
> > pedestrian waiting to cross - what if an oncoming car, for reasons of
> > courtesy, flashes to let the pedestrian across - what will I do?
>
> Your 'Flashes' convey some very clear messages - I thought some flashes
> merely made people aware of the presence of the vehicle - do you mouth the
> message at the same time as you flash - or do the lights somehow convey your
> intent. Is it the same as the flashing headlights on a rushing police car or
> ambulance? I must walk out in front of one to check their intent.
> I am amazed that you assume people understand your flashes - are they in
> English?

No, they're in context, a language you clearly haven't mastered.

MBQ
From: Man at B&Q on
On May 11, 7:18 pm, "John" <Who90nos...(a)ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > I tend to flash as an "I will wait for you" signal long before I've
> > stopped - as soon as I make the decision that I will give way to the
> > car/pedestrian. The aim is that if I give them enough warning they will be
> > able to complete their manoeuvre before I get there and I won't even need
> > to
> > come to a complete halt. I usually do a quick sanity check that *as far as
> > I
> > am aware* there are no other hazards, but all I am signalling is "I will
> > give way", not "it is safe".
>
> > If I'm approaching a pedestrian and an oncoming car flashes, I will always
> > try to stop, even if I wasn't planning to do so, because it requires
> > *both*
> > directions to give way in order for it to be safe for the pedestrian to
> > get
> > right across. It's one of the first thoughts on my mind when I see a
> > pedestrian waiting to cross - what if an oncoming car, for reasons of
> > courtesy, flashes to let the pedestrian across - what will I do?
>
> See Highway Code:
>
> QUOTE:
> Signs and markings
> 110
> Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know
> that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message
> or intimidate other road users.
>
> unquote
>
> I fear that some 'good natured and wonderful' drivers are making up their
> own rules in order to 'collect' waves and an expectation of - a returned
> favour - or a place in driver's heaven.

Like many a dictionary, the HC has simply faied to keep up with common
usage.

MBQ
From: Zimmy on

"loopy livernose" <ifyouwanttoemailme(a)askfor.my.address> wrote in message
news:6%fGn.2430$4Z4.1283(a)newsfe13.ams2...
>
> "Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote in message
> news:hsc0c3$nop$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "ChelseaTractorMan" <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:fldiu51mu3qfaptsh2k6a546v0foijjnln(a)4ax.com...
>>
>>> **this morning I stopped for a woman with pushchair, there was no
>>> other traffic except a bus at a stop in the opposite direction. There
>>> was a pedestrian reservation. Excessive pointless courtesy? Some would
>>> say yes. Some would say more dangerous than letting her sort it out
>>> herself. She was talking on her mobile (yep, crossing road with a
>>> child and on the phone!) She didn't notice I had stopped at first, the
>>> bus did and flashed as it started to move. She then crossed, I reckon
>>> that's an inattentive pedestrian in charge of a child got out of harms
>>> way. Job done!
>>
>> I know of a case where a schoolgirl was flashed to cross the road at a
>> busy junction outside a school. She trusted the driver and ran across but
>> did not realise the traffic coming the other way weren't stopping. Two
>> broken legs.
>>
>> Z
>>
>
> there's a section in the highway code for pedestrians too.. so a car
> warned her he was there, but stationary, and she didn't check the other
> way on a two way road? I fail to see how its a drivers fault..

It wasn't either driver's fault, but knowing that busy three way junction
has pelican crossings it was surely unwise to flash her across on what must
have been a red man, and indeed, assume that a schoolgirl, had read,
understood or even remembered the highway code, never mind apply it.
Unfortunately kids often assume that adult know best.

Z

From: ChelseaTractorMan on
On Tue, 11 May 2010 17:24:35 +0100, "Zimmy" <z(a)y.x> wrote:

>I know of a case where a schoolgirl was flashed to cross the road at a busy
>junction outside a school. She trusted the driver and ran across but did not
>realise the traffic coming the other way weren't stopping. Two broken legs.

and how many pedestrians have been hit by cars crossing where the
traffic had failed to stop? But its important to take care that your
action is not misunderstood as far as possible. Nowadays in that kind
of situation I just stop and do nothing else. That generates doubt,
which is a good thing.
--
Mike. .. .
Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
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