From: Mike Barnes on
Nick Finnigan <nix(a)genie.co.uk>:
>Mortimer wrote:
>> "Mike Barnes" <mikebarnes(a)bluebottle.com> wrote in message
>>news:wLJKAbYt0B6LFwQs(a)g52lk5g23lkgk3lk345g.invalid...
>>> Halmyre <no.spam(a)this.address>:
>>>> A variation on that is that the car in front is slowing down to turn
>>>> right, and actually stops to let somebody else turn right from the side
>>>> street.
>>>
>>> In NZ, that's the *law*. It seems to work quite well.
>> Ah, I thought it was if you were going straight ahead on the major
>>road that you had to give way to traffic coming towards you on the
>>major road but which was signalling to turn right across your path.

I was told that was a common misconception.

>>I hadn't realised that you also had to give way to traffic turning
>>out of a minor road onto the major road if you yourself were turning
>>right into that road.
>
>Neither, as far as I can make out:
>http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/whats-diff-driving-nz/whats-diff-
>driving-nz.html
>
> Where there is no major / side road defined, give way to the right.

Quite so. See the graphic immediately above the heading "No left turn on
red", which depicts the situation I believe Halmyre had in mind.

--
Mike Barnes
From: Bill on
In message <tnofu5lcslpudo2dplu2plm0sorcsvsdjm(a)4ax.com>,
ChelseaTractorMan <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> writes
>On Mon, 10 May 2010 09:50:57 +0100, Bod <bodron57(a)tiscali.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>I'm all for more courtesy on our roads, but 'unnecessary' stopping
>> can produce anger.
>
>people who get angry because they are held up for 20 seconds should
>have their licences revoked.


A bit like the guy following me yesterday.

I was in a long'ish line of cars going through a housing estate and saw
someone attempting to reverse out, why people can't reverse in and then
come out forwards I don't know (another winge), from their drive way on
my right. The road cleared towards us and the car reversing started to
move slowly out and was positioned so that it was obvious they wanted to
join the line of traffic I was in. We were only moving at about 25mph
and I slowed down to 10-15 mph to allow a gap to form and also gave them
a "flash" OK that has no legal meaning apart from I am here. The guy
behind me was on a different planet with no one else on it but me and
him, must have been the case because he overtook me and tried to drive
through the reversing car that was by now 3/4 of its way into our lane.

Total impatience and lack of observation.




--
Bill
From: Mortimer on
"Bill" <Bill(a)birchnet.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cfEmAoPYxI6LFwkb(a)birchnet.demon.co.uk...
> In message <tnofu5lcslpudo2dplu2plm0sorcsvsdjm(a)4ax.com>, ChelseaTractorMan
> <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> writes
>>On Mon, 10 May 2010 09:50:57 +0100, Bod <bodron57(a)tiscali.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I'm all for more courtesy on our roads, but 'unnecessary' stopping
>>> can produce anger.
>>
>>people who get angry because they are held up for 20 seconds should
>>have their licences revoked.
>
>
> A bit like the guy following me yesterday.

And like the guy who got angry with me last night on the M18.

I'd seen two white transit vans, one UK reg and one Dublin reg, travelling
together and playing leapfrog as I was travelling south on the A1. At one
point as I overtook them in Lane 2, they both pulled out from Lane 1 to Lane
3 immediately I'd gone past, passing *very* close behind me. So I was aware
that they were playing silly buggers.

Fast forward to the M18, heading towards the M1. Lane 3 was closed for road
works and everyone was funnelling into L1 and L2. There was a 50 limit. I
was in L2, sticking to the limit because I know road works limits are
policed stringently. As I passed him, Mr Dublin Transit pulled out from L1
to L2 behind me and began flashing me furiously every few seconds while
sitting about 3 feet from my back bumper. As I had traffic doing 50 in front
of me, there was nothing I could have done, even if I'd wanted to.
Eventually he gave his headlights and horn a rest. When the national speed
limit ("derestricted") sign came up, just as Lane 3 opened up, I began
accelerating back up to 70. Our Dublin friend went mental. He swerved into
Lane 3, flashing and hooting furiously, and tried to overtake - but his van
wouldn't accelerate as fast as my car and I wasn't going to abort my
acceleration and even brake, simply in order to let a vehicle with *less*
power try to get past me. A mile or so further on he'd finally got up to 80
and came storming past me and cut in sharply ahead. Sadly for him, I'd
sussed what he was likely to do and had already started to brake in case he
cut me up. If I'd been on my own I'd probably have called his reg number,
location and description in to the police because he was clearly driving
recklessly and at times dangerously.

From: Clive George on
On 11/05/2010 00:07, Mortimer wrote:

> I'd seen two white transit vans, one UK reg and one Dublin reg,
> travelling together and playing leapfrog as I was travelling south on
> the A1. At one point as I overtook them in Lane 2, they both pulled out
> from Lane 1 to Lane 3 immediately I'd gone past, passing *very* close
> behind me. So I was aware that they were playing silly buggers.

And I'm guessing they wanted you to move to L3 to allow them to do their
stuff while you passed.

> Fast forward to the M18, heading towards the M1. Lane 3 was closed for
> road works and everyone was funnelling into L1 and L2. There was a 50
> limit. I was in L2, sticking to the limit because I know road works
> limits are policed stringently. As I passed him, Mr Dublin Transit
> pulled out from L1 to L2 behind me and began flashing me furiously every
> few seconds while sitting about 3 feet from my back bumper. As I had
> traffic doing 50 in front of me, there was nothing I could have done,
> even if I'd wanted to.

Couldn't you have pulled into L1? Get him off your tail, let him get on
with things?

> Eventually he gave his headlights and horn a
> rest. When the national speed limit ("derestricted") sign came up, just
> as Lane 3 opened up, I began accelerating back up to 70. Our Dublin
> friend went mental. He swerved into Lane 3, flashing and hooting
> furiously, and tried to overtake - but his van wouldn't accelerate as
> fast as my car and I wasn't going to abort my acceleration and even
> brake, simply in order to let a vehicle with *less* power try to get
> past me. A mile or so further on he'd finally got up to 80 and came
> storming past me and cut in sharply ahead.

I'd have probably just tickled the accelerator a bit more so he'd not
have caught up. 80 isn't really that fast on 3 lane DC.

"abort your acceleration" - 50-70 doesn't take that long...

> Sadly for him, I'd sussed
> what he was likely to do and had already started to brake in case he cut
> me up.

Alternative is to move into L3 or L1 if he pulls in too close.

Interestingly none of your story has you in anything but L2.
From: Mortimer on
"Clive George" <clive(a)xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:H8adnWmP5qp7CHXWnZ2dnUVZ7vGdnZ2d(a)brightview.co.uk...
> On 11/05/2010 00:07, Mortimer wrote:
>
>> I'd seen two white transit vans, one UK reg and one Dublin reg,
>> travelling together and playing leapfrog as I was travelling south on
>> the A1. At one point as I overtook them in Lane 2, they both pulled out
>> from Lane 1 to Lane 3 immediately I'd gone past, passing *very* close
>> behind me. So I was aware that they were playing silly buggers.
>
> And I'm guessing they wanted you to move to L3 to allow them to do their
> stuff while you passed.

No doubt. But why should I leave an empty lane between me and the vehicles
that I'm overtaking. There may even have been faster traffic overtaking me
in L3, I can't remember.

>> Fast forward to the M18, heading towards the M1. Lane 3 was closed for
>> road works and everyone was funnelling into L1 and L2. There was a 50
>> limit. I was in L2, sticking to the limit because I know road works
>> limits are policed stringently. As I passed him, Mr Dublin Transit
>> pulled out from L1 to L2 behind me and began flashing me furiously every
>> few seconds while sitting about 3 feet from my back bumper. As I had
>> traffic doing 50 in front of me, there was nothing I could have done,
>> even if I'd wanted to.
>
> Couldn't you have pulled into L1? Get him off your tail, let him get on
> with things?

L1 was nose-to-tail with traffic less than 2 seconds apart, as was L2,
though I'd left a slightly bigger gap ahead of me. Both lanes of traffic
were travelling at the same speed. So there was no opportunity to pull in.

>> Eventually he gave his headlights and horn a
>> rest. When the national speed limit ("derestricted") sign came up, just
>> as Lane 3 opened up, I began accelerating back up to 70. Our Dublin
>> friend went mental. He swerved into Lane 3, flashing and hooting
>> furiously, and tried to overtake - but his van wouldn't accelerate as
>> fast as my car and I wasn't going to abort my acceleration and even
>> brake, simply in order to let a vehicle with *less* power try to get
>> past me. A mile or so further on he'd finally got up to 80 and came
>> storming past me and cut in sharply ahead.
>
> I'd have probably just tickled the accelerator a bit more so he'd not have
> caught up. 80 isn't really that fast on 3 lane DC.
>
> "abort your acceleration" - 50-70 doesn't take that long...

In the time that I did 50-60, Chummy had moved into L3, still travelling at
50. As I carried on accelerating, I could see him retreating from me, but in
L3. Should I stop accelerating and maybe brake to let him past or should I
carry on accelerating and let him say "oh well, worth a try" and move back
into L2 behind me? I chose the latter. Had he been a powerful car which was
gaining on me, I might have stopped accelerating to make it easier for him
to get past me, and then resumed after he'd got past and was disappearing
into the distance. But I draw the line at doing this courteous gesture for
someone who's actually *slower* than me but who nevertheless moves into a
lane on my right to try to overtake me ;-)

>> Sadly for him, I'd sussed
>> what he was likely to do and had already started to brake in case he cut
>> me up.
>
> Alternative is to move into L3 or L1 if he pulls in too close.
>
> Interestingly none of your story has you in anything but L2.

There was dense traffic in L1 hroughout the road works, so it wasn't
possible to move into L1. L3 was coned off. I was in L2 as I came out of the
road works and I stayed in that lane since I didn't want to overtake
anything ahead of me in L2.

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