From: Adrian on 26 Nov 2009 07:08
Peter Grange <peter(a)plgrange.demon.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:
>> Perhaps you could clarify what you said. Are you proposing that killer
>> cyclists should face appropriate jail sentences or are you proposing
>> that the law should be enforced as it has been to-date. In a weak,
>> ineffective manners which permits cyclists to kill and then walk free?
> As far as I am concerned, if you unlawfully kill someone whilst riding a
> bike that is not substantially different from unlawfully killing someone
> whilst driving a car. What have I said which makes you think I believe
You should believe differently, because it is different.
There is no equivalent, applicable to cycling, to the offences of Causing
Death by Dangerous Driving or Causing Death by Careless Driving.
They were introduced specifically because, in the case of a road
collision, it's very difficult to prove the gross negligence required for
a Manslaughter conviction - basically, juries were very reluctant to
convict because of the "There but for the grace..." angle. CDbDD and
CDbCD carry much less onerous tests, so are considerably easier to prove
- and thereby convict.
Which all means that, yes, there IS a substantial difference between
unlawfully killing someone whilst riding a bike and unlawfully killing
someone whilst driving a car - and that the cyclist IS much more likely
to walk free.
From: Derek Geldard on 26 Nov 2009 07:12
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:23:31 +0000, David Hansen
>On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 10:15:48 +0000 someone who may be Peter Grange
><peter(a)plgrange.demon.co.uk> wrote this:-
>>What's road tax please?
>Something that was abolished in the 1930s. Even when it did exist it
>only paid for up to half of the cost of improvements to roads of
>national importance and up to a quarter of the cost of improvements
>to other roads. The rest of the cost of improvements and all of the
>costs of maintenance, policing and so on came out of general
What's the problem with cyclists paying their share then?
From: dan on 26 Nov 2009 07:50
Peter Grange <peter(a)plgrange.demon.co.uk> writes:
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:30:31 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
> <davidlang(a)nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>Or did you mean those cyclists who get free cycle lanes that hold up tax
>>paying motorists, ignore lights, one way systems and ride on pavements?
> Pretty much everyone in the uk pays tax, how do you recognise the
> non-taxpayers please?
Many of the ones running small businesses specialising in
around-the-house tasks (electricians, plumbers, shelf putter-uppers,
etc) are reputedly not averse to a "cash in hand" job that need not be
declared to HMRC
I don't know if this is what the Medway Handyman was referring to
From: David Hansen on 26 Nov 2009 08:33
On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:50:29 +0000 someone who may be dan(a)telent.net
>> Pretty much everyone in the uk pays tax, how do you recognise the
>> non-taxpayers please?
>Many of the ones running small businesses specialising in
>around-the-house tasks (electricians, plumbers, shelf putter-uppers,
>etc) are reputedly not averse to a "cash in hand" job that need not be
>declared to HMRC
>I don't know if this is what the Medway Handyman was referring to
Be that as it may they still pay tax, unless they have found a way
of buying almost anything without paying tax.
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
From: Rob on 26 Nov 2009 09:22
Peter Grange wrote:
|| On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:30:31 GMT, "The Medway Handyman"
|| <davidlang(a)nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
||| webreader wrote:
|||| Why do the police not do anything about the likes of these
|||| cyclists. Yet again proof that cyclists get special consideration
|||| unlike motorists.
||| Do you mean those cyclists who pay no road tax, have no insurance,
||| don't have to pass a test of competance & don't have any visible
||| means of being traced?
|| What's road tax please?
It's the tax one pays for permission to use a vehicle on the road. It's
referred to by various different names, eg. car tax, vehicle tax, Vehicle
excise duty, road tax etc. but most people understand what it means.
||| Or did you mean those cyclists who get free cycle lanes that hold
||| up tax paying motorists, ignore lights, one way systems and ride on
|| Pretty much everyone in the uk pays tax, how do you recognise the
|| non-taxpayers please?
Non-taxpayers (in the context used), can be recognised by the lack of a
vehicle excise duty disk attatched to their vehicle, ie. car, van, bike etc.