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From: GT on 27 Jul 2010 06:34 "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:8b6dnX7TwvkCLdPRnZ2dnUVZ8g-dnZ2d(a)bt.com... > > "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message > news:4c4eae36$0$15820$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:XM2dnQ74Nu96NtPRnZ2dnUVZ8kednZ2d(a)bt.com... >>> >>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>> news:4c4ea83e$0$15821$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:zdCdne4JBt1C9NDRnZ2dnUVZ8qadnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>> >>>>> <boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message >>>>> news:i2jnar$fae$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... >>>>>> On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:47:24 +0100 >>>>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message >>>>>>>news:i2jj26$7pm$1(a)speranza.aioe.org... >>>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:43:40 +0100 >>>>>>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> We're not talking about stopping on a dual carraigeway. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Quite, if we were I'd have written "70mph". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The limit on most of them is 60. Stick to your bicycle old man. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Really, are you seriously saying that the NSL on a dual carriageway >>>>>>>is >>>>>>>60mph? >>>>>> >>>>>> If theres no central reservation yes. Feel free to argue the point. >>>>> >>>>> If there's no central reservation what makes you think it's a dual >>>>> carriageway? >>>> >>>> May I butt in with a simple Carriageways vs lanes statement? (clearly >>>> someone should reply with a 'no' here). >>>> >>>> The numbers of 'lanes' on a road and number of 'carriageways' have >>>> nothing to do with each other. The word carriageway refers to a stretch >>>> of tarmac. A single stretch of tarmac is a single carriageway and can >>>> have 1, 2, 3, 4+ lanes painted upon it and those lanes can run in >>>> either direction. If there are 2 separate pieces of tarmac with a >>>> divider (gravel trap or grassy strip) between them, then we have two >>>> carriageways (commonly called dual carriageway). Each of these 2 >>>> carriageways can have 1, 2, 3+ lanes painted on them, but traffic >>>> usually flows in only one direction per carriageway. >>> >>> Correct. >>> >>>> Having said this, I'm not sure if the national 60 limit increases to 70 >>>> *automatically* as soon as the central reservation appears. I seem to >>>> remember that there has to be a 'dual carriageway' sign before the >>>> limit actually goes up to 70, despite the fact that the driver can >>>> clearly see that the carriageway has split in two. >>>> >>> A point I'd not considered. I've always taken the view that a central >>> reservation makes it a dual carriageway and therefore 70 mph. >> >> I mention this as I was speaking to a friend a few years ago about a >> particular stretch of road. The friend is a police inspector who trains >> the police motorbike riders, so he should know what he is talking about >> when it comes to road regulations. > > One would hope so, but I still wouldn't take it as gospel. > > The only thing which counts in an instance such as this in a court of law > is the law, not the opinion of a copper however well qualified. > >> There is a stretch of road near us which has 2 carriageways with 2 lanes >> on each. I had assumed it to be a 70 limit, but he said it is still a 60 >> and it is not 'officially' a dual carriageway. >> > Is this a very short stretch providing a refuge for vehicles turning > right? It was quite a short stretch, yes. There was a turning right part at the start of the stretch, but this was in a 3rd lane and well before anyone would have reached 70 - the stretch starts at the top of a hill, just after a 30 limit. I think the purpose of the the stretch of dual carriageway is to allow queues to dissipate after the series of 30 limits and towns over the past 10 miles. The traffic on the main road was not really affected by the right turning part. This particular stretch of road has all changed recently, so I can't post any pictures/links. The left hand land has been turned into a green bus lane and the junction now has traffic lights. The bus lane has only served to confuse people even further because it only operates during rush hours (something like 7-9:30 and 4-6). There is 1 bus every half an hour!! When the bus lane is not in operation, it results in a long queue of stationary cars in the 'overtaking' lane waiting at the red light, while I stay in the normal lane and end up at the front, at the lights with no one behind me. The people in the right lane always get cross and try to race me at the lights - I don't bother and just set off normally, so 400 yards later when the 2 lanes go back to 1, they all cut in front of me and blast their horns because they think I undercut them in a bus lane, only it wasn't a bus lane! What are you supposed to do! >> I did not ask what makes a stretch of dual carriageway 'official' as I >> was too busy turning the burgers and drinking wine > > Glad to hear that you got the priorities right. :-) BBQ talk - half stories - more wine - forget things. You know the score! >> but the only indication I can think of is the square blue 'dual >> carriageway' signs. > > It's a possibility. The other possibility is whether or not a road traffic > order (by whatever name) has to be published to notify the driving public > that the section in question is now a d/c. (In much the same way that a > change of speed limit has to be published.)
From: GT on 27 Jul 2010 12:08 "Jethro" <krazykara0(a)googlemail.com> wrote in message news:6842a0c5-6d67-4d78-a6b5-7ce0b485caa7(a)q35g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... > Having just watched a number cars grinding up a hill near me (I was > walking) because a cyclist was at the head of the queue, and it was > too twisty and narrow to safely overtake, I started wondering about > the OVERALL effect cyclists have on carbon emissions. I've just noticed that the OP was walking - this means there was a pavement and therefore room to stop at the side of the road, leaning away from the traffic and allow the faster traffic to clear!! Just an observation, no need for us to start the debate all over again - I think we covered every point possible already!
From: Nick Finnigan on 27 Jul 2010 15:57 GT wrote: > "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:XM2dnQ74Nu96NtPRnZ2dnUVZ8kednZ2d(a)bt.com... >> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>> Having said this, I'm not sure if the national 60 limit increases to 70 >>> *automatically* as soon as the central reservation appears. It does: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#4 > I mention this as I was speaking to a friend a few years ago about a > particular stretch of road. The friend is a police inspector who trains the > police motorbike riders, so he should know what he is talking about when it > comes to road regulations. There is a stretch of road near us which has 2 > carriageways with 2 lanes on each. I had assumed it to be a 70 limit, but he > said it is still a 60 and it is not 'officially' a dual carriageway. He would say that wouldn't he: the only issue is if the carriageways are separated by a permanent work which is a traffic island. A streetview might help, even if it has been changed recently. (somebody took the view recently that the central reservation on the Stocksbridge bypass was a traffic island).
From: boltar2003 on 28 Jul 2010 04:31 On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:19:55 +0100 "DavidR" <curedham(a)4bidden.org.uk> wrote: ><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote >> "DavidR" <curedham(a)4bidden.org.uk> wrote: >>>> Why would you have to do a sudden stop if a cyclist doing 5mph up a >>>> steep >>>> hill decided to pull over and get off? Do you normally do emergency >>>> braking at that speed? >>> >>>Where did you get 5mph from? >> >> Even the tour de france riders barely manage 10mph up a steep hill. Are >> you suggesting your typical cyclist could do better? > >What gradient do you consider to be "steep"? Err, one where the cyclist is struggling to maintain good progress. >> Why not go back to the beginning of the thread and read it. Its not me >> making anything up. > >The originator never mentioned it. Anyway, if you're not making it up you're >passing on second hand hand information. If you consider you have had a A cyclist going up a hill holding up traffic was the topic under discussion. If you want to discuss something else start a new thread. And funnily enough it will be second hand because curiously I wasn't actually there! Are you new to usenet? B2003
From: mileburner on 28 Jul 2010 23:21
"Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:SPqdnfINtp9vLdPRnZ2dnUVZ7o2dnZ2d(a)bt.com... > > "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message > news:4c4eafe1$0$15827$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> news:ie-dnekxsYZ-M9PRnZ2dnUVZ8r6dnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>> >>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>> news:4c4eacf6$0$15866$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>> news:s4ednS8HDJPnNtPRnZ2dnUVZ8tCdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>> >>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>>>> news:4c4ea046$0$15829$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:7ZKdnZ9Q97VadtDRnZ2dnUVZ7tOdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:4c4dea37$0$26079$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:FqCdnUmuLrZNe9DRnZ2dnUVZ8lGdnZ2d(a)bt.com... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>>>>>>>> news:4c4ddd83$0$12278$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>>>>>> "mileburner" <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>> news:i2e1s3$2kf$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>> news:4c49ba53$0$22739$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>>>>>>>> "mileburner" <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>> news:i2c6v5$s8k$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:4c496d79$0$22716$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "mileburner" <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Boltar's cycling advice is not really very good. I can't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine why... >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> And your road knowledge is very very very bad. We all know >>>>>>>>>>>>>> why! >>>>>>>>>>>>> Who is the "we"? are you and boltar the same person? >>>>>>>>>>>> I was simply referring to anyone in this *driving* group who >>>>>>>>>>>> knows how to drive properly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So you are trying to drum up allies for you bizarre points of >>>>>>>>>>> view? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Not my point of view matey - its the DSA and the highway code! >>>>>>>>> Where in the highway code? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Check the DSA gov website - you'll find it - look under "making >>>>>>>> good progress" >>>>>>> Got a link? >>>>>> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=DSA.gov >>>>> You've cited a specific entry in the Highway Code. Can you provide a >>>>> direct link to it or not? >>>> >>>> I've already said elsewhere that I can't be bothered trawling through >>>> it all. As I have also already said, the quote I gave earlier is from a >>>> DSA driving examiner when failing a student on his driving test. If you >>>> need more help, please take it up with the DSA and stop shooting the >>>> messenger (me)! >>> What you have failed to understand is that just because one can fail a >>> driving test for failing to do something, that doesn't mean it's in the >>> Highway Code nor that it is an offence. >>> >>> Therefore, until you either provide a link to the relevant page of the >>> HC or confirm that your talking bollocks I'll keep shooting. >> >> ... blanks ! > So where's the link? Psst. He made it up, again :-( |