Diesels In England: Why ?
in [Technical]
|
From: Thomas Tornblom on 1 Jun 2010 02:31 dsi1 <dsi1(a)spamnet.com> writes: > On 5/30/2010 9:06 PM, Thomas Tornblom wrote: >> dsi1<dsi1(a)spamnet.com> writes: >> >>> On 5/30/2010 11:19 AM, Bob wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> My son tells me that diesel cars are very, very popular in England. >>>> Obviously they are not here. >>>> >>>> a. If he's right, how come they are over there ? >>>> b. What are the pros and cons of diesel vs gas ? >>>> c. etc. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts would be most appreciated. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Bob >>> >>> In Europe, fuel cost per kilometer is more important than it is in the >>> states. The Europeans have are more open to small displacement lower >>> horsepower engines. Diesel engines are also more durable and easier to >>> maintain than gas engines but what it comes down to is that Americans >>> don't care for diesel engine cars, Europeans have learned to live with >>> them. >>> >>> The reality is that you don't need all this complex hybrid technology >>> to get great fuel mileage, a small diesel engined car can do as well >>> without the complexity. >> >> Diesel engines and low horsepower/low performance is a thing of the past. >> >> European diesels are often more powerful than their gas counterparts. > > It's possible to make a fairly sophisticated, powerful diesel engine > but my guess is that that most folks driving diesels will have a > normally aspirated, 2 valve engine with pretty good torque ratings. > > I don't know what most people are driving in Europe. I'm just guessing > that it's not really fast diesels. This is not a big deal - most > people in the US aren't driving DHOC, turbo, 4-valve engines either. Most (all?) modern european diesels, at least around here, are turbo charged and most are direct injected, with sophisticated engine management and high pressure injection systems. I can't remember having seen a non-turbo diesel in the last ten years or so. A few years ago, when VW presented a new Golf GTI, most car magazines recommended getting it with the diesel. They were both 150 bhp and the diesel was the quicker of the two.
From: dsi1 on 1 Jun 2010 02:48 On 5/31/2010 8:31 PM, Thomas Tornblom wrote: > dsi1<dsi1(a)spamnet.com> writes: > >> On 5/30/2010 9:06 PM, Thomas Tornblom wrote: >>> dsi1<dsi1(a)spamnet.com> writes: >>> >>>> On 5/30/2010 11:19 AM, Bob wrote: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> My son tells me that diesel cars are very, very popular in England. >>>>> Obviously they are not here. >>>>> >>>>> a. If he's right, how come they are over there ? >>>>> b. What are the pros and cons of diesel vs gas ? >>>>> c. etc. >>>>> >>>>> Any thoughts would be most appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bob >>>> >>>> In Europe, fuel cost per kilometer is more important than it is in the >>>> states. The Europeans have are more open to small displacement lower >>>> horsepower engines. Diesel engines are also more durable and easier to >>>> maintain than gas engines but what it comes down to is that Americans >>>> don't care for diesel engine cars, Europeans have learned to live with >>>> them. >>>> >>>> The reality is that you don't need all this complex hybrid technology >>>> to get great fuel mileage, a small diesel engined car can do as well >>>> without the complexity. >>> >>> Diesel engines and low horsepower/low performance is a thing of the past. >>> >>> European diesels are often more powerful than their gas counterparts. >> >> It's possible to make a fairly sophisticated, powerful diesel engine >> but my guess is that that most folks driving diesels will have a >> normally aspirated, 2 valve engine with pretty good torque ratings. >> >> I don't know what most people are driving in Europe. I'm just guessing >> that it's not really fast diesels. This is not a big deal - most >> people in the US aren't driving DHOC, turbo, 4-valve engines either. > > Most (all?) modern european diesels, at least around here, are turbo > charged and most are direct injected, with sophisticated engine > management and high pressure injection systems. I can't remember > having seen a non-turbo diesel in the last ten years or so. This is good to hear - it's a shame we don't have the option to buy these diesels in an economy car. > > A few years ago, when VW presented a new Golf GTI, most car magazines > recommended getting it with the diesel. They were both 150 bhp and the > diesel was the quicker of the two.
From: Thomas Tornblom on 1 Jun 2010 02:48 Roger Blake <rogblake(a)iname.invalid> writes: > On 2010-05-31, hls <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >> Loafing along at 12 miles per gallon, Cuhu? When fuel gets up to >> $8-10 per gallon, "loafing along" might be viewed in a different light. > > Gasoline is that expensive in Europe due to the confiscatory tax > policies of those governments. If politicians try to bring about > the same policies here, and clearly the current regime would like to, > they will be in for a rude awakening come election time. (Despite the > best efforts of the government schools and mass media, Americans have > not yet been completely reduced to a state of complacent servitude.) > > -- > Roger Blake > (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled due to spam.) > "Obama dozed while people froze." While I'm no proponent of high fuel taxes, it is a powerful weapon to bring overall fuel efficiency up. Gas guzzling SUV:s are becoming increasingly hard to sell in Europe. I get around 45-50 mpg with our gasoline 122 bhp 1.4 TSI 2010 golf 6, which is a nice car, about as spacious as an old Volvo 740.
From: hls on 1 Jun 2010 07:53 "Roger Blake" <rogblake(a)iname.invalid> wrote in message > Taxing would be the major component there, particularly with current > set of thieving politicians in power. However, that can be addressed > at the ballet box and probably will be since many people have woken up > to the true nature of our recently elected "leaders." Absolutely, Roger.. Taxation can be the major component of fuel prices. It currently is not in the USA, but is in a goodly part of Europe. And you are right about the thieving politicians. Unfortunately, you may not be right about being able to address this at the ballot box. We have had a long run of candidates who offer no alternatives. And when we send someone new to Washington, he or she turns rotten as the newest apple in a very sick barrel. As I see it, we have no obvious candidate in any party who can and will work for the country and for the people.
From: C. E. White on 1 Jun 2010 08:11
"Bob" <rgsros(a)notme.invalid> wrote in message news:htukpg$rr1$1(a)news.eternal-september.org... > Hello, > > My son tells me that diesel cars are very, very popular in England. > Obviously they are not here. > > a. If he's right, how come they are over there ? > b. What are the pros and cons of diesel vs gas ? > c. etc. > > Any thoughts would be most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Bob Fuel taxation is the main reason diesels originally becasme more popular in Europe as a whole. In the old days, there were very few diesel cars. Governments in continental Eurpoe imposed high fuel taxes on gasoline to hold down consumer demand and therefore reduce the importation of fuel from foreign sources. Since diesel fuel was mostly used in commercial vehicles, it was originally not taxed as heavily since they did not want to penalize commerce. However, because of this disparity in taxation, automakers started developing smaller diesel engines for automobiles. These days, at least in the UK, diesel fuel is actually more expensive than unleaded regular gasoline. However, becasue diesel cars get better fuel economy, they are still very popular (especially if you don't care about performance). Remember, becasue of taxation, fuel in the UK and Europe is much more expensive than in the US (2 to 3 times as much per gallon). Becasue of these high prices, good fuel economy is highly valued. People are willing to put up with mediocre performance if it means they can get significantly better fuel economy. Pros for diesel engines - - diesel engines are somewhat more efficient that gasolie engines, particularly at part throttle - diesel fuel has higher engergy content per gallon than gasoline and this is not always reflected in the cost of the fuel - beacuse of the above two factors, diesel engines often get much better fuel economy - becasue of the need to make the engines very robust, they generally last longer - diesel fuel has bettter lubricating properties than gasoline and this helps improve the life of the engine - no spark plugs (and therefore no high voltage ignition system) Cons for diesel engines: - becasue of the much higher cylinder pressures, engines have to be heavier and more expensive to build - complicated / expensive fuel delivery system, intolerant of fuel contamination - power output for a given engine weight is less than for a gasoline engine - exhaut emmissions are more dangerous and harder to control - diesel engines tend to be less responsive and limited to fewer maximum rpms - diesel engines tend to be noiser Ed |