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From: hls on 2 Aug 2010 14:45 "jim beam" <me(a)privacy.net> wrote in message news:FN- > tires don't do this on their own, only if there is an underlying cause. Apparently they do. This vehicle had nothing wrong with it. Shocks were new and in good condition (Bilsteins), alignment was good, and no worn suspension parts. That is why I, at first did not rotate. I should have. >> Took them back to the tire shop (Discount Tire, >> Lufkin, Texas) and they told me lack of rotation was causing this. > > masks the symptoms - doesn't address the cause. > There was no mechanical defect...before I took the vehicle for rotation. Discount Tire used their Torque Stix, and the rotors warped within a couple of weeks. Note that I had had no rotor problems before this happened. >> Similar happened to our Avalon. Michelins got only 30,000. Replaced them >> with Kumho' s and am getting much better wear, but noticed at about 10000 >> the ride was deteriorating, noisy, etc. Rotated and it is a-ok for now. > > tires with only 50% contact do indeed tend to be quieter! Im not sure what point you are trying to make. There would have been no significant contact difference between the Michelins and the Kumhos. Both were quiet at first. The Michelins were still quiet when they wore down to the wear bars. I do not expect the Kumhos to be as quiet as those particular Michelins, although they are very good tires. The Kumhos are a lot harder compound,should last a long time. Traction is good, but probably not as good as the much softer Michelins. Above, I should have said I rotated and had the tires rebalanced. They returned them to like new performance. There is nothing wrong with the alignment or suspension on this Avalon either.
From: N8N on 2 Aug 2010 14:59 On Aug 2, 11:00 am, klu...(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote: > hls <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: > > >Did you rotate these tires religiously? That is more important now than > >ever before. > > Is it really? With modern tires being directional you can only swap them > front and back when you rotate... does that really make that much of an > improvement in equalizing wear? IMHO yes. I can't speak to the OP's car, but my experiences with FWD Impalas (used as company cars at my employer for at least the last 5 years) is that they chew up the outsides of the front tires at a shocking rate, and in fact, they probably ought to be rotated more often than even the most conscientious people do (every 7000 miles, which is when we get the oil changed.) I do run my tires at a little bit higher than recommended pressure (33-35 PSI vs. 30 PSI) and that seems to help a little but tire wear is still not great. nate
From: Steve W. on 2 Aug 2010 15:33 N8N wrote: > On Aug 2, 11:00 am, klu...(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote: >> hls <h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >> >>> Did you rotate these tires religiously? That is more important now than >>> ever before. >> Is it really? With modern tires being directional you can only swap them >> front and back when you rotate... does that really make that much of an >> improvement in equalizing wear? > > IMHO yes. I can't speak to the OP's car, but my experiences with FWD > Impalas (used as company cars at my employer for at least the last 5 > years) is that they chew up the outsides of the front tires at a > shocking rate, and in fact, they probably ought to be rotated more > often than even the most conscientious people do (every 7000 miles, > which is when we get the oil changed.) > > I do run my tires at a little bit higher than recommended pressure > (33-35 PSI vs. 30 PSI) and that seems to help a little but tire wear > is still not great. > > nate VERY common problem with all FWD vehicles. With a RWD vehicle the rear tires pushed the vehicle and ran in a straight line with some side loading through corners. Front steered the vehicle with angular loading due to Ackerman geometry and loading through turns. On a FWD vehicle the rear tires do little other than act as trailer tires supporting the rear of the vehicle. About the only load is minor sidewall loading in corners. BUT the front tires are getting beat to death, They have to drag around all the weight, steer the vehicle, provide 80% of the braking as well as handle the vibration and torque inputs from the engine. In the fleet vehicles I used to drive the company never wanted the tires rotated. On the Caravans we ran it was very common to still have factory tires on the rear at 100K miles, with a lot of tread left, and have chewed through at least 4 sets of front tires. As for modern tires being directional, Only if they are performance tires with directional tread is that the case. Common tires can handle rotational changes easily, UNLESS they have been subjected to serious abuse (burnouts, slamming on the brakes and the like) Then you may get the plies to shift enough the reversing the rotation causes problems. -- Steve W. (\___/) (='.'=) (")_(")
From: jim beam on 2 Aug 2010 17:26 On 08/02/2010 11:59 AM, N8N wrote: > On Aug 2, 11:00�am, klu...(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote: >> hls<h...(a)nospam.nix> wrote: >> >>> Did you rotate these tires religiously? �That is more important now than >>> ever before. >> >> Is it really? �With modern tires being directional you can only swap them >> front and back when you rotate... does that really make that much of an >> improvement in equalizing wear? > > IMHO yes. I can't speak to the OP's car, but my experiences with FWD > Impalas (used as company cars at my employer for at least the last 5 > years) is that they chew up the outsides of the front tires at a > shocking rate, and in fact, they probably ought to be rotated more > often than even the most conscientious people do (every 7000 miles, > which is when we get the oil changed.) if these tires are not running on the center line, these vehicles need to be realigned. one of the problems with fwd macphersons, especially ones with sloppy longitudinal positioning like the impala, is that when driven hard [fleet vehicles], the drive torque has an effect on alignment. the factory setting is an average for "average" driving. if your fleet's "average" driving differs from that, they need to be aligned with slightly more toe out to compensate for the actual loads. > > I do run my tires at a little bit higher than recommended pressure > (33-35 PSI vs. 30 PSI) and that seems to help a little but tire wear > is still not great. > > nate -- nomina rutrum rutrum
From: Clive on 2 Aug 2010 17:27
In message <FN-dnQcGYqxhncrRnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d(a)speakeasy.net>, jim beam <me(a)privacy.net> writes >nomina rutrum rutrum I've just looked up your sig in a Latin dictionary. Nomina = Name Rutrum = Shovel, Spade or trowel. What does it mean when it's combined as it is? -- Clive |