Ford Ka cat ...
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From: Clint Sharp on 18 Jun 2008 13:58 In message <tiT5k.9179$iv3.2830(a)newsfe14.ams2>, Arfa Daily <arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> writes >Hi all > >Any thoughts, insights, advice etc appreciated. > 1. Just because the dealer told you it was the cat doesn't mean they are correct (or honest). 2. Ditch your garage, find one that has their own diag gear and knows how to use it, yours doesn't have the gear to reset the warning light so they aren't reading the codes either. They are guessing about the fault based on what you're telling them, if it all goes titsup and the fault doesn't go away, guess who they'll blame! You could end up buying a cat only to find it's something completely different and the fault reappears a few hundred miles later when the new cat stops working. 3. Scan tools *only* give an indication of the fault, it's often not cut and dried that the reported fault is caused by the component named by the scan tool or even the 'obvious' one. 4. Cats and O2 Sensors are notoriously easy to make mistakes with, especially when the fitter takes the codes as gospel because few mechanics actually understand combustion and emissions control systems and how one end of the system is affected by the other. 5. If it's low mileage, unless she's done something monumentally stupid, it possibly just needs a good thrashing and the light turning off (It may even go off on its own after said Italian tune up.) >TIA Arfa > > -- Clint Sharp
From: Arfa Daily on 18 Jun 2008 20:29 "Clint Sharp" <clint(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:3GhC8TGFzUWIFwN7(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk... > In message <tiT5k.9179$iv3.2830(a)newsfe14.ams2>, Arfa Daily > <arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> writes >>Hi all >> >>Any thoughts, insights, advice etc appreciated. >> > 1. Just because the dealer told you it was the cat doesn't mean they are > correct (or honest). > > 2. Ditch your garage, find one that has their own diag gear and knows how > to use it, yours doesn't have the gear to reset the warning light so they > aren't reading the codes either. They are guessing about the fault based > on what you're telling them, if it all goes titsup and the fault doesn't > go away, guess who they'll blame! You could end up buying a cat only to > find it's something completely different and the fault reappears a few > hundred miles later when the new cat stops working. > > 3. Scan tools *only* give an indication of the fault, it's often not cut > and dried that the reported fault is caused by the component named by the > scan tool or even the 'obvious' one. > > 4. Cats and O2 Sensors are notoriously easy to make mistakes with, > especially when the fitter takes the codes as gospel because few mechanics > actually understand combustion and emissions control systems and how one > end of the system is affected by the other. > > 5. If it's low mileage, unless she's done something monumentally stupid, > it possibly just needs a good thrashing and the light turning off (It may > even go off on its own after said Italian tune up.) > >>TIA Arfa >> >> > > -- > Clint Sharp Thanks for the comments, all. I was assuming that as the diagnosis was made by main dealers Allen Ford, that they would have got it right. Am I wrong to assume this ? Are main dealers' service personel not sufficiently properly trained in the interpretation of fault codes on their own dealership vehicles, to be able to make a definitive diagnosis ? Heaven knows where we go from here, if that's not the case ... If I can't trust what *they* say, then I really don't know whether I can suggest that she goes elsewhere and seeks a second opinion, for which she is going to have to shell out yet more wonga over what she already has. And if they come up with a different diagnosis, what then ? I don't know off the top of my head what the mileage is, but I do know that she doesn't do all that much in it herself, and is unlikely to have done anything as you say "monumentally stupid". She did say to me though that it is not running well, and feels "ill". FWIW, I seem to remember that some time ago, she did have another occurence of an engine warning light coming on, and that was, as you say, a faulty oxygen sensor, which was duly replaced. I don't know which one though. You are correct about the other garage that I spoke to. They are just my local village garage where we have general servicing and MOTs done on our 'bog standard' cars. They are reasonably cheap, and honest, and I have been using them for 30 years. They do have a basic hand-held OBD analyser, but they freely admit that they are not specialists in the field of electronic engine management, and for that reason, have a 'mobile' specialist that they can call in. They were just quoting me to do the basic job of replacing the cat, and getting the fault light reset, based on what the main dealer had said needed doing, and which I trusted to be a full and correct analysis of the problem. So, I really don't know what to recommend now that she does. 690 quid is a lot of dosh in anyone's book, and she hasn't really got it, and neither have I at the moment. Arfa
From: Mrcheerful on 19 Jun 2008 04:16 Arfa Daily wrote: > "Clint Sharp" <clint(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message > news:3GhC8TGFzUWIFwN7(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk... >> In message <tiT5k.9179$iv3.2830(a)newsfe14.ams2>, Arfa Daily >> <arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> writes >>> Hi all >>> >>> Any thoughts, insights, advice etc appreciated. >>> >> 1. Just because the dealer told you it was the cat doesn't mean they >> are correct (or honest). >> >> 2. Ditch your garage, find one that has their own diag gear and >> knows how to use it, yours doesn't have the gear to reset the >> warning light so they aren't reading the codes either. They are >> guessing about the fault based on what you're telling them, if it >> all goes titsup and the fault doesn't go away, guess who they'll >> blame! You could end up buying a cat only to find it's something >> completely different and the fault reappears a few hundred miles >> later when the new cat stops working. 3. Scan tools *only* give an >> indication of the fault, it's often not >> cut and dried that the reported fault is caused by the component >> named by the scan tool or even the 'obvious' one. >> >> 4. Cats and O2 Sensors are notoriously easy to make mistakes with, >> especially when the fitter takes the codes as gospel because few >> mechanics actually understand combustion and emissions control >> systems and how one end of the system is affected by the other. >> >> 5. If it's low mileage, unless she's done something monumentally >> stupid, it possibly just needs a good thrashing and the light >> turning off (It may even go off on its own after said Italian tune >> up.) >>> TIA Arfa >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Clint Sharp > > Thanks for the comments, all. I was assuming that as the diagnosis > was made by main dealers Allen Ford, that they would have got it > right. Am I wrong to assume this ? Are main dealers' service personel > not sufficiently properly trained in the interpretation of fault > codes on their own dealership vehicles, to be able to make a > definitive diagnosis ? Heaven knows where we go from here, if that's > not the case ... If I can't trust what *they* say, then I really > don't know whether I can suggest that she goes elsewhere and seeks a > second opinion, for which she is going to have to shell out yet more > wonga over what she already has. And if they come up with a different > diagnosis, what then ? > I don't know off the top of my head what the mileage is, but I do > know that she doesn't do all that much in it herself, and is unlikely > to have done anything as you say "monumentally stupid". She did say > to me though that it is not running well, and feels "ill". > > FWIW, I seem to remember that some time ago, she did have another > occurence of an engine warning light coming on, and that was, as you > say, a faulty oxygen sensor, which was duly replaced. I don't know > which one though. > You are correct about the other garage that I spoke to. They are just > my local village garage where we have general servicing and MOTs done > on our 'bog standard' cars. They are reasonably cheap, and honest, > and I have been using them for 30 years. They do have a basic > hand-held OBD analyser, but they freely admit that they are not > specialists in the field of electronic engine management, and for > that reason, have a 'mobile' specialist that they can call in. They > were just quoting me to do the basic job of replacing the cat, and > getting the fault light reset, based on what the main dealer had said > needed doing, and which I trusted to be a full and correct analysis > of the problem. > So, I really don't know what to recommend now that she does. 690 quid > is a lot of dosh in anyone's book, and she hasn't really got it, and > neither have I at the moment. > > Arfa Just a thought, what fuel does she use? Rubbish stuff seems to mess up o2 sensors more than good stuff. Try a tank or two of bp ultimate or shell optimax or one of the premium types. Being over full of oil can wreck o2 sensors and cats, as can putting diesel in!.
From: Arfa Daily on 19 Jun 2008 13:31 "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:GBo6k.12021$E41.1321(a)text.news.virginmedia.com... > Arfa Daily wrote: >> "Clint Sharp" <clint(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:3GhC8TGFzUWIFwN7(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk... >>> In message <tiT5k.9179$iv3.2830(a)newsfe14.ams2>, Arfa Daily >>> <arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> writes >>>> Hi all >>>> >>>> Any thoughts, insights, advice etc appreciated. >>>> >>> 1. Just because the dealer told you it was the cat doesn't mean they >>> are correct (or honest). >>> >>> 2. Ditch your garage, find one that has their own diag gear and >>> knows how to use it, yours doesn't have the gear to reset the >>> warning light so they aren't reading the codes either. They are >>> guessing about the fault based on what you're telling them, if it >>> all goes titsup and the fault doesn't go away, guess who they'll >>> blame! You could end up buying a cat only to find it's something >>> completely different and the fault reappears a few hundred miles >>> later when the new cat stops working. 3. Scan tools *only* give an >>> indication of the fault, it's often not >>> cut and dried that the reported fault is caused by the component >>> named by the scan tool or even the 'obvious' one. >>> >>> 4. Cats and O2 Sensors are notoriously easy to make mistakes with, >>> especially when the fitter takes the codes as gospel because few >>> mechanics actually understand combustion and emissions control >>> systems and how one end of the system is affected by the other. >>> >>> 5. If it's low mileage, unless she's done something monumentally >>> stupid, it possibly just needs a good thrashing and the light >>> turning off (It may even go off on its own after said Italian tune >>> up.) >>>> TIA Arfa >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Clint Sharp >> >> Thanks for the comments, all. I was assuming that as the diagnosis >> was made by main dealers Allen Ford, that they would have got it >> right. Am I wrong to assume this ? Are main dealers' service personel >> not sufficiently properly trained in the interpretation of fault >> codes on their own dealership vehicles, to be able to make a >> definitive diagnosis ? Heaven knows where we go from here, if that's >> not the case ... If I can't trust what *they* say, then I really >> don't know whether I can suggest that she goes elsewhere and seeks a >> second opinion, for which she is going to have to shell out yet more >> wonga over what she already has. And if they come up with a different >> diagnosis, what then ? >> I don't know off the top of my head what the mileage is, but I do >> know that she doesn't do all that much in it herself, and is unlikely >> to have done anything as you say "monumentally stupid". She did say >> to me though that it is not running well, and feels "ill". >> >> FWIW, I seem to remember that some time ago, she did have another >> occurence of an engine warning light coming on, and that was, as you >> say, a faulty oxygen sensor, which was duly replaced. I don't know >> which one though. >> You are correct about the other garage that I spoke to. They are just >> my local village garage where we have general servicing and MOTs done >> on our 'bog standard' cars. They are reasonably cheap, and honest, >> and I have been using them for 30 years. They do have a basic >> hand-held OBD analyser, but they freely admit that they are not >> specialists in the field of electronic engine management, and for >> that reason, have a 'mobile' specialist that they can call in. They >> were just quoting me to do the basic job of replacing the cat, and >> getting the fault light reset, based on what the main dealer had said >> needed doing, and which I trusted to be a full and correct analysis >> of the problem. >> So, I really don't know what to recommend now that she does. 690 quid >> is a lot of dosh in anyone's book, and she hasn't really got it, and >> neither have I at the moment. >> >> Arfa > > Just a thought, what fuel does she use? Rubbish stuff seems to mess up o2 > sensors more than good stuff. Try a tank or two of bp ultimate or shell > optimax or one of the premium types. Being over full of oil can wreck o2 > sensors and cats, as can putting diesel in!. > Thanks for the tip, I'll pass it on to her. So are you saying that this might cause the problem to 'self heal' if it is a sensor issue rather than an actual cat problem ? With a tank-full of 'good stuff' on board, is it worth giving it a good ragging as Clint suggested ? If it seems to run better after, but the light is still on, should she just swallow the cost, and get the local boys to get their man in, and get the light reset, and then see if it stays off, and if not, get from him what exactly what the fault code is to see if it then offers any more clues to you lads ? Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far. Arfa Arfa
From: Arfa Daily on 19 Jun 2008 13:49
"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:Oow6k.29540$P83.28206(a)newsfe20.ams2... > > "Mrcheerful" <nbkm57(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:GBo6k.12021$E41.1321(a)text.news.virginmedia.com... >> Arfa Daily wrote: >>> "Clint Sharp" <clint(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk> wrote in message >>> news:3GhC8TGFzUWIFwN7(a)clintsmc.demon.co.uk... >>>> In message <tiT5k.9179$iv3.2830(a)newsfe14.ams2>, Arfa Daily >>>> <arfa.daily(a)ntlworld.com> writes >>>>> Hi all >>>>> >>>>> Any thoughts, insights, advice etc appreciated. >>>>> >>>> 1. Just because the dealer told you it was the cat doesn't mean they >>>> are correct (or honest). >>>> >>>> 2. Ditch your garage, find one that has their own diag gear and >>>> knows how to use it, yours doesn't have the gear to reset the >>>> warning light so they aren't reading the codes either. They are >>>> guessing about the fault based on what you're telling them, if it >>>> all goes titsup and the fault doesn't go away, guess who they'll >>>> blame! You could end up buying a cat only to find it's something >>>> completely different and the fault reappears a few hundred miles >>>> later when the new cat stops working. 3. Scan tools *only* give an >>>> indication of the fault, it's often not >>>> cut and dried that the reported fault is caused by the component >>>> named by the scan tool or even the 'obvious' one. >>>> >>>> 4. Cats and O2 Sensors are notoriously easy to make mistakes with, >>>> especially when the fitter takes the codes as gospel because few >>>> mechanics actually understand combustion and emissions control >>>> systems and how one end of the system is affected by the other. >>>> >>>> 5. If it's low mileage, unless she's done something monumentally >>>> stupid, it possibly just needs a good thrashing and the light >>>> turning off (It may even go off on its own after said Italian tune >>>> up.) >>>>> TIA Arfa >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Clint Sharp >>> >>> Thanks for the comments, all. I was assuming that as the diagnosis >>> was made by main dealers Allen Ford, that they would have got it >>> right. Am I wrong to assume this ? Are main dealers' service personel >>> not sufficiently properly trained in the interpretation of fault >>> codes on their own dealership vehicles, to be able to make a >>> definitive diagnosis ? Heaven knows where we go from here, if that's >>> not the case ... If I can't trust what *they* say, then I really >>> don't know whether I can suggest that she goes elsewhere and seeks a >>> second opinion, for which she is going to have to shell out yet more >>> wonga over what she already has. And if they come up with a different >>> diagnosis, what then ? >>> I don't know off the top of my head what the mileage is, but I do >>> know that she doesn't do all that much in it herself, and is unlikely >>> to have done anything as you say "monumentally stupid". She did say >>> to me though that it is not running well, and feels "ill". >>> >>> FWIW, I seem to remember that some time ago, she did have another >>> occurence of an engine warning light coming on, and that was, as you >>> say, a faulty oxygen sensor, which was duly replaced. I don't know >>> which one though. >>> You are correct about the other garage that I spoke to. They are just >>> my local village garage where we have general servicing and MOTs done >>> on our 'bog standard' cars. They are reasonably cheap, and honest, >>> and I have been using them for 30 years. They do have a basic >>> hand-held OBD analyser, but they freely admit that they are not >>> specialists in the field of electronic engine management, and for >>> that reason, have a 'mobile' specialist that they can call in. They >>> were just quoting me to do the basic job of replacing the cat, and >>> getting the fault light reset, based on what the main dealer had said >>> needed doing, and which I trusted to be a full and correct analysis >>> of the problem. >>> So, I really don't know what to recommend now that she does. 690 quid >>> is a lot of dosh in anyone's book, and she hasn't really got it, and >>> neither have I at the moment. >>> >>> Arfa >> >> Just a thought, what fuel does she use? Rubbish stuff seems to mess up >> o2 sensors more than good stuff. Try a tank or two of bp ultimate or >> shell optimax or one of the premium types. Being over full of oil can >> wreck o2 sensors and cats, as can putting diesel in!. >> > > Thanks for the tip, I'll pass it on to her. So are you saying that this > might cause the problem to 'self heal' if it is a sensor issue rather than > an actual cat problem ? With a tank-full of 'good stuff' on board, is it > worth giving it a good ragging as Clint suggested ? If it seems to run > better after, but the light is still on, should she just swallow the cost, > and get the local boys to get their man in, and get the light reset, and > then see if it stays off, and if not, get from him what exactly what the > fault code is to see if it then offers any more clues to you lads ? > > Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far. > > Arfa BTW, she has just told me that the mileage is just over 32k. Arfa |