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From: Ivor Jones on 19 Aug 2006 14:40 "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ob-dnUQDL62TynrZRVnyqQ(a)bt.com > "Ivor Jones" <ivor(a)despammed.invalid> wrote in message > news:4kp2u1FcsirbU1(a)individual.net... > > > > > > "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:gdGdnWBrieveznrZRVnyjw(a)bt.com > > > "Ivor Jones" <ivor(a)despammed.invalid> wrote in message > > > news:4kp1qaFcsuhsU1(a)individual.net... > > > > "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > > > > news:xYWdnW_uQ-ZS0nrZnZ2dnUVZ8s-dnZ2d(a)bt.com > > > > > "Ivor Jones" <ivor(a)despammed.invalid> wrote in > > > > > message news:4kp14fFd9k96U1(a)individual.net... > > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > > > Now you're really talking cobblers. How can I > > > > > > not be English if I was born in England..? > > > > > > > > > > Because of your parentage. > > > > > > > > My parentage has nothing to do with it. *I* am > > > > defined by where *I* was born, not by where someone > > > > else was. If my mother was born in Japan (she > > > > wasn't, by the way, neither was she born in Wales) > > > > would that make me Japanese..? > > > > > > It would make you part Japanese. > > > > I can't be part anything, unless you cut me into bits. > > Which bit would be Japanese, my left leg..? > > Never heard of mixed race people, formerly known as > "half-casts"? > > > > > > I said I wasn't a European, which I'm not, and > > > > > > nothing you say will make it otherwise, so give > > > > > > up now, I never will. > > > > > > > > > > On the contrary, you are European whether you > > > > > like it or not, and nothing you say will make it > > > > > otherwise. > > > > > > > > Wrong. Give up now, I will take this on forever, you > > > > will *never* make me say I am what I am not. Ever. > > > > Get used to it. > > > > > > What you say is irrelevant, you are European. > > > > Wrong. Give up. > > > > > > > If you > > > > > were born of parents whose ethnic origins are > > > > > European then you are European. It's like being a > > > > > human male, you don't get any say in the matter. > > > > > > > > I am defined by my country not continent, and by > > > > where *I* was born not someone else. > > > > > > As are the Germans, the French, the Irish, the Dutch > > > et al. They will all (with the exception of the usual > > > weirdos) say they are nationals of their country, but > > > they're still European. > > > > To you, maybe. To other people, maybe. Not to me. Give > > up. > > So are you saying that a person can only be one thing? > That they cannot be defined by their place of birth, by > their parentage/ethnic origin, by the continent in which > their country lies? You can define someone how you like, it won't make them what they're not. > > > What makes you think you're > > > different to the other 400,000,000 or so people who > > > live on this continent? > > > > Nothing. If they want to describe themselves as > > something they're not, that's up to them. I don't and > > never will. Give up. > > What they describe themselves as is irrelevant, it's what > they are. Wrong. Give up. Ivor
From: Ivor Jones on 19 Aug 2006 14:42 "Adrian" <toomany2cvs(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:Xns9824C7CB0170adrianachapmanfreeis(a)204.153.244.170 > Ivor Jones (ivor(a)despammed.invalid) gurgled happily, > sounding much like they were saying : > > > My parentage has nothing to do with it. *I* am defined > > by where *I* was born, not by where someone else was. > > If my mother was born in Japan (she wasn't, by the way, > > neither was she born in Wales) would that make me > > Japanese..? > > So all those kids born to BFPO in Germany in the > 60s-70s-80s are German? Even if they moved back to the UK > in their infancy? If that's where they were born, yes. They could take UK citizenship, certainly, but by birth they would still be German. Ivor
From: Adrian on 19 Aug 2006 14:48 Mike Henry ({$usenet-spamdump$}@mrtickle.demon.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying : > Northern Ireland isn't a country It's in a very analagous position to England.
From: Brimstone on 19 Aug 2006 14:49 "Ivor Jones" <ivor(a)despammed.invalid> wrote in message news:4kp47gFdb2suU1(a)individual.net... > > > "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:NZKdnYtT1-CQxXrZRVny2w(a)bt.com >> "Ivor Jones" <ivor(a)despammed.invalid> wrote in message >> news:4kp343Fcj01gU1(a)individual.net... >> > "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > news:rZWdnbZmTaWpy3rZnZ2dnUVZ8smdnZ2d(a)bt.com >> > > "Ivor Jones" <ivor(a)despammed.invalid> wrote in message >> > > news:4kp305Fd9a9mU1(a)individual.net... >> > > > "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message >> > > > news:9f-dncWxYvDQyHrZnZ2dnUVZ8tednZ2d(a)bt.com >> > > > >> > > > [snip] >> > > > >> > > > > So the cultural and other influences that your >> > > > > parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles (assuming >> > > > > you have any) impressed upon you throughout your >> > > > > childhood have had no effect? >> > > > >> > > > Correct. My nationality is the country of my birth. >> > > > Nothing else. >> > > >> > > No one has said any different. >> > >> > You said I am a European. I am not, I am an Englishman. >> >> Why are you trying to seperate two things which are >> inseperable? England is in Europe, it's firmly attached. > > That has nothing to do with my nationality. Who said it did? >> No one can tow it away to be a seperate entity. Therefore >> you are a European born in England of a Welsh father and >> an unknown (to me) mother. > > I am an Englishman born in England. Yes, I think we are fully aware of what you believe yourself to be. However, it what else you are which is the point. Accepting for the moment that you are an Englishman born in England how does that make you *not* European?
From: Tony Raven on 19 Aug 2006 14:50
Paul {Hamilton Rooney} wrote on 19/08/2006 09:58 +0100: > > You hear it on the BBC now. There was a time when those anals wouldn't even > split an infinitive. Although it's grammatically perfectly OK to split an infinitive (Cambridge Grammar of the English Language Chapter 4) > > Usage is usage. Neither accurate nor inaccurate. That's how language works. > It has to be more than just usage otherwise writing "guvf vf n ybnq bs yvathvfgvp gbfu" would be considered perfectly acceptable English. -- Tony "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory." - Leonardo da Vinci |