From: cuhulin on
The Great Lie by Jim Kirwan.
http://www.rense.com/general91/lie.htm

Toxic Rain.
cuhulin

From: chuckcar on
"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in
news:RtudnQYES6_39J3RnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d(a)giganews.com:

>
> "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D86CF1748982chuck(a)127.0.0.1...
>> "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in
>> news:ZtGdneK7bdBC1p3RnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d(a)giganews.com:
>>
>>> What we need now are sound heads, good technology, and a lot of
>>> luck..
>>>
>> And removal of all the corruption that led to this mess in the first
>> place.
>>
>> I just would like *someone* tell me how exactly this soap, as that
>> *is* what we're talking about here, is supposed to help clean up the
>> oil spill. I proposed a viable reason, but I see nothing in your
>> reply with either confirms or negates that it would work.
>>
>
> Then you are a little slow.
> I have told you the science behind it, and you cant seem to
> understand. Oil spill dispersants are intended to break the oil into
> microparticles so that naturally occuring bacteria can attack and
> metabolize the oil more efficiently.
>
No, soap bonds to grease and oil and then floats to the surface. The
basic nature of soap itself (chemically) would remove any possibility of
microscopic life living around it. Just as you couldn't survive in a
bath of Javex.


--
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
From: hls on

"Tegger" <invalid(a)invalid.inv> wrote in message
>
> I read in the WSJ that about 1% of the crude oil in North American waters
> is from man's accidents. Some 62% is from natural sources. They didn't
> specify where the other 37% comes from.
>
> --
> Tegger

Hard to say, Cuhulin. Tar balls seep up from the ocean floor all the time.
This is a natural contamination. Some comes from ships which wash
tanks and dump offshore. Some comes from runoff from the continent
after rains.

The oceans can take a little contamination, but not a lot. In warm waters,
bacteria can biodegrade some degree of contamination, but they are easily
overcome.

There are ways to mechanically remove oil spills, but this is work
intensive,
and is not a good solution.

BP, Cameron, Halliburton, MI Swaco and others have some answers to
come up with. But, just as we blew up two space shuttles, lose some
aircraft every year, and kill a ton of people in traffic accidents, some of
this
is statistically not unexpected. Some of it may well be carelessness or
bad choices of operational procedures, or mechanical failure.

People who want Obama, or the military, or the coast guard,or even
another oil company to take over are just foolishs. When you change
horses in midstream, you will prolong the plugging of this well, and
the cleanup, by months.

From: hls on

"chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message
>>
> No, soap bonds to grease and oil and then floats to the surface. The
> basic nature of soap itself (chemically) would remove any possibility of
> microscopic life living around it. Just as you couldn't survive in a
> bath of Javex.

> (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )

Chuck, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.
"Soap" is sodium stearate, or sodium oleate or similar. Bacterial can
degrade this easily in nature.

"Soap", or synthetic surfactants, can form microemulsions, essentially
solubilizing hydrocarbons. This is done by the formation of micelles.
Bacterial can, and do, attack hydrocarbons (Pseudomonas is one of
the common ones) but to do so effectively, they have to have intimate
contact, as you would have with a microemulsion.

These have been used onshore to clean up oil pits, leaking gasoline tanks,
etc. You have to enrich the effective bacteria in the contaminated area,
mix it to allow oxygen to be readily available, and you have to fertilize
the bacteria (Miracle Grow will even work). It takes time, but it can
work.

It is a complicated subject. There have been some "snake oil" sales
campaigns in the past, simply because some companies want to sell
a ton of product, and when the poop hits the fan, they are gone.

Been there, seen that.

The news presenters like, unfortunately, Joe Scarbrough, have been
raving about "toxic oil dispersants". He should focus on something
he really knows about (if we could find an area of expertise for someone
that is technically incompetent.)

I am now pessimistic that the top down kill mud strategy will work.
It WOULD work if you could get the kill mud where it needs to be..
and that is very difficult if not impossiblein this case.


From: APLer on
"hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in
news:7aidnTEjiPjHHZ3RnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d(a)giganews.com:

>
> "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message
>>>
>> No, soap bonds to grease and oil and then floats to the surface. The
>> basic nature of soap itself (chemically) would remove any possibility
>> of microscopic life living around it. Just as you couldn't survive in
>> a bath of Javex.
>

> Chuck, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking
> about. "Soap" is sodium stearate, or sodium oleate or similar.
> Bacterial can degrade this easily in nature.
>
No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved
in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach.

> "Soap", or synthetic surfactants, can form microemulsions,
> essentially solubilizing hydrocarbons. This is done by the formation
> of micelles. Bacterial can, and do, attack hydrocarbons (Pseudomonas
> is one of the common ones) but to do so effectively, they have to have
> intimate contact, as you would have with a microemulsion.
>
> These have been used onshore to clean up oil pits, leaking gasoline
> tanks, etc. You have to enrich the effective bacteria in the
> contaminated area, mix it to allow oxygen to be readily available, and
> you have to fertilize the bacteria (Miracle Grow will even work). It
> takes time, but it can work.
>
Give me a link to an example where this *has* completely undone an oil
spill then. Just one.

> It is a complicated subject. There have been some "snake oil" sales
> campaigns in the past, simply because some companies want to sell
> a ton of product, and when the poop hits the fan, they are gone.
>
> Been there, seen that.
>
> The news presenters like, unfortunately, Joe Scarbrough, have been
> raving about "toxic oil dispersants". He should focus on something
> he really knows about (if we could find an area of expertise for
> someone that is technically incompetent.)
>
> I am now pessimistic that the top down kill mud strategy will work.
> It WOULD work if you could get the kill mud where it needs to be..
> and that is very difficult if not impossiblein this case.
>
>
I certainly have no solution to the actual problem at the source.