Gulf oil spill dispersant
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From: chuckcar on 29 May 2010 09:25 "hls" <hls(a)nospam.nix> wrote in news:7aidnTEjiPjHHZ3RnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d(a)giganews.com: > > "chuckcar" <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote in message >>> >> No, soap bonds to grease and oil and then floats to the surface. The >> basic nature of soap itself (chemically) would remove any possibility >> of microscopic life living around it. Just as you couldn't survive in >> a bath of Javex. > Please set your news reader to snip sigs. I posted with the wrong nick again, so am reposting this with the correct one. Apologies again. F1 quali day you see. > > Chuck, with all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking > about. "Soap" is sodium stearate, or sodium oleate or similar. > Bacterial can degrade this easily in nature. > > "Soap", or synthetic surfactants, can form microemulsions, > essentially solubilizing hydrocarbons. This is done by the formation > of micelles. Bacterial can, and do, attack hydrocarbons (Pseudomonas > is one of the common ones) but to do so effectively, they have to have > intimate contact, as you would have with a microemulsion. > No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach. > These have been used onshore to clean up oil pits, leaking gasoline > tanks, etc. You have to enrich the effective bacteria in the > contaminated area, mix it to allow oxygen to be readily available, and > you have to fertilize the bacteria (Miracle Grow will even work). It > takes time, but it can work. > Give me a link to an example where this *has* completely undone an oil spill then. Just one. > It is a complicated subject. There have been some "snake oil" sales > campaigns in the past, simply because some companies want to sell > a ton of product, and when the poop hits the fan, they are gone. > > Been there, seen that. > > The news presenters like, unfortunately, Joe Scarbrough, have been > raving about "toxic oil dispersants". He should focus on something > he really knows about (if we could find an area of expertise for > someone that is technically incompetent.) > > I am now pessimistic that the top down kill mud strategy will work. > It WOULD work if you could get the kill mud where it needs to be.. > and that is very difficult if not impossiblein this case. > I certainly have no solution to the actual problem at the source. -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
From: Scott Dorsey on 29 May 2010 14:00 In article <Xns9D86DFC88C4Achuck(a)127.0.0.1>, chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote: >No, soap bonds to grease and oil and then floats to the surface. The >basic nature of soap itself (chemically) would remove any possibility of >microscopic life living around it. Just as you couldn't survive in a >bath of Javex. You haven't ever washed dishes, have you? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: Scott Dorsey on 29 May 2010 14:04 In article <Xns9D875FA99F341chuck(a)127.0.0.1>, chuckcar <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote: >No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved >in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach. Ummm... no. In fact, there are surfactants that aren't even alkaline. Surfactants lower surface tension and make oil and water miscible. That is their job, and that is why soap takes grease off your body in the shower. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
From: chuckcar on 29 May 2010 15:07 kludge(a)panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote in news:htrkvl$957$1(a)panix2.panix.com: > In article <Xns9D875FA99F341chuck(a)127.0.0.1>, chuckcar > <chuck(a)nil.car> wrote: >>No, soap can be lye, javex, or *anything* that is a base when disolved >>in water. That's why there can be a second type of bleach. > > Ummm... no. In fact, there are surfactants that aren't even alkaline. > Surfactants lower surface tension and make oil and water miscible. > That is their job, and that is why soap takes grease off your body in > the shower. No, you're confusing the difference. From wiki: Surfactants reduce the surface tension of water by adsorbing at the liquid-gas interface. They also reduce the interfacial tension between oil and water by adsorbing at the liquid-liquid interface. Many surfactants can also assemble in the bulk solution into aggregates. Note they say *many* and not all. Soaps are a subclass and the soap property is what I was talking about, not the effect of decreasing surface tension, which in itself wouldn't help a bit. I was talking about using the soap to collect the oil. As I stated in my original post. A plain surfactant would just mix the two. Further to this later on the that same article they call soaps Anioic surfactants. This ionic behavior is what actually attracts the grease and oil molecules -- (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
From: cuhulin on 29 May 2010 16:22
My little couch buddy doggy washes my dishes. http://www.cattledog.com cuhulin |