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From: Clocky on 28 Nov 2009 19:56

"Knobdoodle" <knobdoodle(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:084Qm.58311$ze1.33777(a)news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Clocky wrote:
>
>> As luck would have it I have a spare that I kept for my Astra, well the
>> compressor is iffy but the clutch works perfectly so I'll endevour to
>> disassemble and inspect next week and I'll post my findings here.
>>
> Thanks but I found it on the interweb and had a go at it today.
> It's got a 187� thermal fuse on the inside (compressor side) of the coil
> that had blown.
> It's a turd of a thing to get at but I replaced it with a 228� one that
> was 4 times the size but I've sort-of squeezed in.
> I ran out of light (and I was sick of the ant-bites) so the reassembly
> happens tomorrow.
> Fingers crossed!
> (The fix is here
> <http://www.motorsm.com/complaints/update/display.asp?aid=3521> )
>

Cool yeah, I think I have discovered a nice little side project ;-)



From: John_H on 28 Nov 2009 21:12
Clocky wrote:
>"John_H" <john4721(a)inbox.com> wrote in message
>news:po23h51ea1l05g008lpjpo6f4i56ogjihp(a)4ax.com...
>>
>> The purpose of a thermal fuse is to shut down the compressor when it
>> fails (ie overheats from mechanical friction) and before it seizes.
>> Thermal fuses tend be very reliable and seldom go bad. Is there any
>> reason to suspect an exception?
>>
>> If there is a reason to suspect otherwise the logical fix might be to
>> bridge it out rather than replace the coil... provided you're prepared
>> to risk walking home if the compressor does happen to seize (or else
>> carry a spare belt). :)
>>
>> The fact that neither Jayair nor OEX list the clutch coil in their
>> catalogues, but both have a replacement compressor, also suggests that
>> the compressor is what fails and the fuse probably only does what it's
>> supposed to.
>>
>
>No, it's a common problem John. The coil goes open circuit, much like they
>did on VN/VP Commodore because the thermal devices would fail likely due to
>thermal cycling or because they're not made to tolerate the Australian
>summer conditions.

Presumably you mean the fuse trips, rather than the coil goes o/c?

FWIW I've never had a problem with my own VN in spite of living in a
very hot climate (by coastal city standards) but that's possibly only
because it's never run on R134A. The V8 (which mine is) also has a
different compressor to the V6 and I'm pretty sure the fuse is on the
compressor body and not part of the coil.

>
>They used to list the coil, but it was almost just expensive to remove,
>repair and refit the compressor as it was to replace it because the part was
>expensive and the extra labour involved had to be factored in. On top of
>that, if the compressor did fail for whatever reason after the repair most
>customers wouldn't believe that it wasn't related to the original clutch
>fault and would expect a free repair.

Which is no doubt why most repairers would replace the compressor to
begin with! (Holden may have listed it as a spare part but Jayair and
OEX never have.) :)

Nor does it make sense to replace the coil if it includes the problem
fuse... wouldn't it be better to bridge out the fuse first time around
and avoid a repetition (assuming it's easily got at with the coil
removed)?

Especially since heaps of compressors don't have thermal protection to
begin with. Downside is if the compressor does fail and seize in the
absence of the fuse it'll probably take out the drive belt, which
ought still be a lot cheaper than replacing the coil (or the
compressor) when the fuse is the problem.

--
John H
From: Clocky on 30 Nov 2009 17:43

"John_H" <john4721(a)inbox.com> wrote in message
news:g2j3h59bdrnq69c7d82it2mf5ssrj1u9io(a)4ax.com...
> Clocky wrote:
>>"John_H" <john4721(a)inbox.com> wrote in message
>>news:po23h51ea1l05g008lpjpo6f4i56ogjihp(a)4ax.com...
>>>
>>> The purpose of a thermal fuse is to shut down the compressor when it
>>> fails (ie overheats from mechanical friction) and before it seizes.
>>> Thermal fuses tend be very reliable and seldom go bad. Is there any
>>> reason to suspect an exception?
>>>
>>> If there is a reason to suspect otherwise the logical fix might be to
>>> bridge it out rather than replace the coil... provided you're prepared
>>> to risk walking home if the compressor does happen to seize (or else
>>> carry a spare belt). :)
>>>
>>> The fact that neither Jayair nor OEX list the clutch coil in their
>>> catalogues, but both have a replacement compressor, also suggests that
>>> the compressor is what fails and the fuse probably only does what it's
>>> supposed to.
>>>
>>
>>No, it's a common problem John. The coil goes open circuit, much like they
>>did on VN/VP Commodore because the thermal devices would fail likely due
>>to
>>thermal cycling or because they're not made to tolerate the Australian
>>summer conditions.
>
> Presumably you mean the fuse trips, rather than the coil goes o/c?

Yeah, the thermal fuse fails.

> FWIW I've never had a problem with my own VN in spite of living in a
> very hot climate (by coastal city standards) but that's possibly only
> because it's never run on R134A. The V8 (which mine is) also has a
> different compressor to the V6 and I'm pretty sure the fuse is on the
> compressor body and not part of the coil.

Correct, and on either VN or VP (forget which, it's been a while) there was
at one time a big problem with A/C compressors not cutting in and the
failure was that of the thermal protection device mounted on the compressor.
Holden released a "fix", which was basically to bypass the device on
affected compressors.
This mostly happened within warranty, so affected vehicles would have been
fixed in service or no longer affected when they fixed the problem in
production.

>>
>>They used to list the coil, but it was almost just expensive to remove,
>>repair and refit the compressor as it was to replace it because the part
>>was
>>expensive and the extra labour involved had to be factored in. On top of
>>that, if the compressor did fail for whatever reason after the repair most
>>customers wouldn't believe that it wasn't related to the original clutch
>>fault and would expect a free repair.
>
> Which is no doubt why most repairers would replace the compressor to
> begin with! (Holden may have listed it as a spare part but Jayair and
> OEX never have.) :)
>

That's what I'm getting at. You can still get the coil as a spare part AFAIK
from Holden. I can confirm that, if I remember.

Nor does it make sense to replace the coil if it includes the problem
> fuse... wouldn't it be better to bridge out the fuse first time around
> and avoid a repetition (assuming it's easily got at with the coil
> removed)?

No, because "techs" are just part fitters these days and are not allowed to
repair anything even if it is possible and they have the know-how.
The replacement compressors and presumably the replacement coils don't
suffer from the same problem so they fixed the problem in production. Not
all Astra's are affected anyway, and there were more then one type of
compressor fitted during it's production life.

> Especially since heaps of compressors don't have thermal protection to
> begin with. Downside is if the compressor does fail and seize in the
> absence of the fuse it'll probably take out the drive belt, which
> ought still be a lot cheaper than replacing the coil (or the
> compressor) when the fuse is the problem.
>

If mine fails I'll happily bypass the thermal protection but then I'm
currently opening up Astra ECU's to see if I can find a fix for those too as
they fail with monotonous regularity and with the same symptoms. Mine hasn't
failed yet...



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