From: Clocky on
XR8 Sprintless wrote:
> On 19/05/2010 10:47 PM, XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>> On 19/05/2010 10:44 PM, Clocky wrote:
>>> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>>>> On 19/05/2010 9:51 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> "XR8 Sprintless"<xr8_sprint(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
>>>>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>>>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not
>>>>>> to start in the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the
>>>>>> radiator specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's a "TK" test?
>>>>>
>>>> It's a test where they check the gases from the radiator overflow
>>>> tank for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that
>>>> changes colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator
>>>> overflow tank. A sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe
>>>> type thing with a bulb at the end of it and it mixes with the
>>>> fluid.
>>>
>>> It shouldn't be used at the overflow tank but at the cooling system
>>> filler.
>>>
>>> They can be pretty accurate in the right hands, but I'm not sure the
>>> person
>>> who did yours qualifies.
>>>
>> My description may not be accurate as I said I am not a mechanic,
>> however is the cooling system filler where the radiator cap is on the
>> plastic bottle or is it elsewhere?
>>

Depends on the car, if the test was done at the cooling system resevoir it
may well have been done correctly but that isn't the overflow bottle.

> They state on the report that they use a machine from West Germany
> that can detect minute traces of exhaust gases. I didn't see it being
> done, however looked on the net for a picture of a tk test kit.

Well it looks like a bulb basically draws air from the top of the cooling
system filler through two chambers filled with blue fluid that turns green
if exhaust gases are present. That's the TK tester, but it's not the only
way to test for the presence of exhaust gas in the cooling system.


From: Clocky on
Milton wrote:
> "XR8 Sprintless" <xr8_sprint(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf3d897$0$8764$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
>> On 19/05/2010 9:51 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>> "XR8 Sprintless"<xr8_sprint(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
>>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not
>>>> to start in the
>>>> morning. They claim the TK test performed by the radiator
>>>> specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>>
>>> What's a "TK" test?
>>>
>> It's a test where they check the gases from the radiator overflow
>> tank for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that
>> changes colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow
>> tank. A sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing
>> with a bulb at the end of it and it mixes with the fluid.
>
> That's a fair description XR8. The colour of the fluid is usually
> blue and if the exhaust gas is present it will change to yellow. It
> should only be done at normal operating temperatures. I take it the
> colour changed to yellow and the car dealer is claiming inaccuracy by
> the radiator guy?
> It will only change to yellow if the exhaust gasses are present. This
> could indicate a stuffed head gasket or a warped head or both. If
> this is the case you will also need to find out what caused the
> overheating or it will just happen again.
>

It's not the only way as I've seen people accidentally suck up a little
coolant for a false positive diagnosis.
If carried out by an unskilled radiator "specialist" I would be a little
skeptical about the result.


From: XR8 Sprintless on
On 20/05/2010 12:01 AM, Noddy wrote:
> "XR8 Sprintless"<xr8_sprint(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf3e7ee$0$27826$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...
>
>> It's a 2002 AU Falcon wagon I bought about 3 weeks ago. It had a leak from
>> the 'o' ring on the lower thermostat housing where the heater pipe I think
>> goes in. However the issue is with starting in the morning. It never
>> starts first time but coughs and splutters, then when you turn the key a
>> second time it fires perfectly. It has a slight miss at idle as well and I
>> originally thought it may be a faulty coil pack but had the exhaust gas
>> check done on the advice of a customer who is a mechanic.
>
> So, is it using any water or is it just the starting issue that's the
> problem?

It was using water as there was a leak on the 'o' ring on the heater
pipe entry to the thermostat housing, however once that was fixed I took
it straight to the radiator shop for the exhaust gas test as the
starting problem did sound like it could be a head gasket. I haven't
driven it more than 20km since to see if it is still using water. I'll
replace the coil pack shortly as I have one already for it.
>
> The most common area for head gasket sealing problems with these engines is
> on the driver's side of the engine right under the exhaust manifold. The
> water jacket runs *very* close to the outside of the head in this area and
> it doesn't take much in the way of corrosion for a leak to occur. When it
> does it usually runs down the outside of the block, but it can be difficult
> to spot as being right under the exhaust manifold it tends to evaporate
> quite quickly and usually before it's had a chance to run down very far and
> become visible. The best way to check is from under the car looking up at
> the base of the head right under the manifold with a torch. If you see white
> coloured liquid stains on the side of the block in this area you've got
> problems.

Thanks for that, I will check it once I get it back.

> However, this is pretty unlikely to be the cause of your starting problems
> and without seeing the car first hand it's hard to know exactly what it
> would be. Coil packs on the things are often flakey and will display the
> symptoms you've described at times, but it could also be a fuel pressure
> issue with a marginal pump. I'd also check to make sure the front of the
> engine isn't covered with a shitload of grease& oil which can interfere
> with the crank position sensor.
>

The engine is very clean having been detailed by the dealer.

Hopefully I should know the outcome tomorrow once my mechanic has
checked it.
From: XR8 Sprintless on
On 20/05/2010 12:14 AM, Clocky wrote:
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:

>>> My description may not be accurate as I said I am not a mechanic,
>>> however is the cooling system filler where the radiator cap is on the
>>> plastic bottle or is it elsewhere?
>>>
>
> Depends on the car, if the test was done at the cooling system resevoir it
> may well have been done correctly but that isn't the overflow bottle.

It's an AU Series 3 Forte Wagon.
>
>> They state on the report that they use a machine from West Germany
>> that can detect minute traces of exhaust gases. I didn't see it being
>> done, however looked on the net for a picture of a tk test kit.
>
> Well it looks like a bulb basically draws air from the top of the cooling
> system filler through two chambers filled with blue fluid that turns green
> if exhaust gases are present. That's the TK tester, but it's not the only
> way to test for the presence of exhaust gas in the cooling system.
>

There's a few theories as to what the problem could be which hopefully
my mechanic can work out for me in the next day. He is doing a pressure
test overnight and another TK test tomorrow. Hopefully he will be able
to identify what is wrong with the car.



From: Noddy on

"Clocky" <notgonn(a)happen.com> wrote in message
news:4bf3f101$0$27807$c3e8da3(a)news.astraweb.com...

> To be fair though, TK is synonymous with that particular test and has been
> for literally decades and not only in Perth it seems.

Maybe it's a "brand name" thing.

There used to be a few different chemical tests over the years. If I
remember correctly some company made a little dye pill that you could drop
into a radiator and it would change the coolant to a certain colour if there
was exhaust gas present while another would require a smale to be taken and
mixed with another liquid to again change the colour and signify exhaust
gas.

Personally I've only ever thought of such tools as gimmicks. If you can't
detect the presence of a combustion leak into a cooling system with an
exhaust gas analyser or a pressure gauge on the radiator you need to be
looking in other areas.

> Walk into any workshop in Perth and say "TK" and they will know exactly
> what you're talking about.

Never heard of it before.

--
Regards,
Noddy.