From: Lookout on
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 07:24:23 -0800, Scott in SoCal
<scottenaztlan(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>Last time on rec.autos.driving, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> said:
>
>>I want to know the streets are safe when I'm driving.
>
>Then you'd better just stay home. The streets have never been safe,
>and never will be.
>
>>I was a Drivers
>>Trainer in the Army and I have a CDL. 16 year olds are NOT capable of
>>being trusted to drive except under very ridged circumstances.
>
>I knew Ruffles had ridges, but I didn't know Circumstances had them,
>too. Learn something new every day. ;)

Stupid answer. Welcome to my filter.
From: Lookout on
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 07:27:56 -0800 (PST), Matt
<matttelles(a)sprynet.com> wrote:

>On Feb 15, 12:24�am, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:09:17 -0800 (PST), Matt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <matttel...(a)sprynet.com> wrote:
>> >On Feb 14, 3:13�am, Lookout <mrLook...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 16:48:41 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>
>> >> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> >Matt <matttel...(a)sprynet.com> wrote in
>> >> >news:437fec10-7e76-43a6-a8c7-0edd43a249df(a)w27g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> >> >> On Feb 13, 3:09�pm, "RD (The Sandman)"
>> >> >> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >> >>> "Speeders & Drunk Drivers Kill Kids" <xeton2...(a)yahoo.com> wrote
>> >> >>> innews:X
>> >> >> ns9D1E772E06965riemann1850yahoo...(a)216.168.3.70:
>>
>> >> >>> > It's such a huge worry when your kids hit 16 and you remember what
>> >> >>> > you were �like at that age and how easy it easy for a dumb kid to
>> >> >>> > drive crazy and kill/cripple himself or someone else and destroy
>> >> >>> > his whole life.
>>
>> >> >>> > Hell - 20 would be even better. Teens, esp boys, are wild and don't
>> >> >>> > think about consequences.
>>
>> >> >>> Why not wait until 21, then they can legally drink at the same time.
>>
>> >> >> Many years ago, I suggested dropping the drinking age to 12, removing
>> >> >> the right entirely at the same age as a driver's license. I was
>> >> >> kidding, of
>> >> >> course, but sometimes...
>>
>> >> >> Raising ages only makes something more taboo, thus more desireable.
>> >> >> Let them drink when their parents think they are ready. Let them drive
>> >> >> when
>> >> >> they can prove to the state/locality that they are ready.
>>
>> >> >> Matt
>>
>> >> >There is a point there even though that post was simply a jibe at SADD.
>>
>> >> >The legal age of consent or when someone is considered an adult
>> >> >(emancipated youth excepted) is either 18 or 21. �It really needs to be
>> >> >one or the other. �I don't care which one is chosen, however, IMHO,
>> >> >someone who is old enough to marry, vote and be sent by our president to
>> >> >die on foreign soil, is certainly old enough to enter a bar and drink a
>> >> >beer.
>>
>> >> On this we agree
>> >> Make it 21 for both.
>>
>> >21 certainly makes sense. But then, why is it you can be drafted at
>> >18,
>> >serve your country and so forth? Many kids are working full-time at
>> >18,
>> >even some supporting families.
>>
>> >Age is an arbitrary choice, and too easy an out.
>>
>> >Matt
>>
>> 21 for draft too.
>
>I don't necessarily agree, but at least you are being consistent.
>
>Matt

That's the best we can hope for in a discussion such as this.
From: Brent on
On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:15:25 +0000 (UTC), Brent
><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:32:05 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:45:19 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 2010-02-14, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:10 -0700, richard <member(a)newsguy.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:42:57 -0600, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Kill Kids
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's such a huge worry when your kids hit 16 and you remember what you were
>>>>>>>>> like at that age and how easy it easy for a dumb kid to drive crazy and
>>>>>>>>> kill/cripple himself or someone else and destroy his whole life.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hell - 20 would be even better. Teens, esp boys, are wild and don't think
>>>>>>>>> about consequences.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Would age make any difference? It's the fact it's your first time.
>>>>>>>>Kind of like hitting an amusement park for the first time you want to do
>>>>>>>>everything as fast as you can.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wrong. We were all much more mature at 21 than we were at 16.
>>>>>>> Or at least most of us were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So you'll punish those who were mature enough at 16? If we are going
>>>>>>to use the slow-ship-in-the-fleet logic, then the driving age would be
>>>>>>somewhere around 65 years old, upon which it would be limited because
>>>>>>of age related problems. People would be allowed to drive for a few
>>>>>>months of their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> IF we have to make an arbitrary age I simply said 21.
>>>>> And there are very few 16 year olds mature enough to drive. And less
>>>>> now than there were 30 years ago. The kids today are idiots.
>>>>
>>>>of course 30 years ago people said: "The kids today are idiots"
>>>>
>>>>This could be a free country if it weren't for people's desires to
>>>>control others.
>>>
>>> I want to know the streets are safe when I'm driving. I was a Drivers
>>> Trainer in the Army and I have a CDL. 16 year olds are NOT capable of
>>> being trusted to drive except under very ridged circumstances.
>>
>>'safety' is always the excuse of the tyrant and control freak.
>>
> It's called society.

No it's not. Society declines as government control increases.


From: Lookout on
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:12:36 +0000 (UTC), Brent
<tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:15:25 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:32:05 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:45:19 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>>>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 2010-02-14, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:10 -0700, richard <member(a)newsguy.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:42:57 -0600, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Kill Kids
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's such a huge worry when your kids hit 16 and you remember what you were
>>>>>>>>>> like at that age and how easy it easy for a dumb kid to drive crazy and
>>>>>>>>>> kill/cripple himself or someone else and destroy his whole life.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hell - 20 would be even better. Teens, esp boys, are wild and don't think
>>>>>>>>>> about consequences.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Would age make any difference? It's the fact it's your first time.
>>>>>>>>>Kind of like hitting an amusement park for the first time you want to do
>>>>>>>>>everything as fast as you can.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wrong. We were all much more mature at 21 than we were at 16.
>>>>>>>> Or at least most of us were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So you'll punish those who were mature enough at 16? If we are going
>>>>>>>to use the slow-ship-in-the-fleet logic, then the driving age would be
>>>>>>>somewhere around 65 years old, upon which it would be limited because
>>>>>>>of age related problems. People would be allowed to drive for a few
>>>>>>>months of their lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IF we have to make an arbitrary age I simply said 21.
>>>>>> And there are very few 16 year olds mature enough to drive. And less
>>>>>> now than there were 30 years ago. The kids today are idiots.
>>>>>
>>>>>of course 30 years ago people said: "The kids today are idiots"
>>>>>
>>>>>This could be a free country if it weren't for people's desires to
>>>>>control others.
>>>>
>>>> I want to know the streets are safe when I'm driving. I was a Drivers
>>>> Trainer in the Army and I have a CDL. 16 year olds are NOT capable of
>>>> being trusted to drive except under very ridged circumstances.
>>>
>>>'safety' is always the excuse of the tyrant and control freak.
>>>
>> It's called society.
>
>No it's not. Society declines as government control increases.
>
That's an opinion and not a fact.
From: Brent on
On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:12:36 +0000 (UTC), Brent
><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:15:25 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:32:05 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 2010-02-15, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 21:45:19 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>>>>>>><tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On 2010-02-14, Lookout <mrLookout(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 21:33:10 -0700, richard <member(a)newsguy.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 12:42:57 -0600, Speeders & Drunk Drivers Kill Kids
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's such a huge worry when your kids hit 16 and you remember what you were
>>>>>>>>>>> like at that age and how easy it easy for a dumb kid to drive crazy and
>>>>>>>>>>> kill/cripple himself or someone else and destroy his whole life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hell - 20 would be even better. Teens, esp boys, are wild and don't think
>>>>>>>>>>> about consequences.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Would age make any difference? It's the fact it's your first time.
>>>>>>>>>>Kind of like hitting an amusement park for the first time you want to do
>>>>>>>>>>everything as fast as you can.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wrong. We were all much more mature at 21 than we were at 16.
>>>>>>>>> Or at least most of us were.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So you'll punish those who were mature enough at 16? If we are going
>>>>>>>>to use the slow-ship-in-the-fleet logic, then the driving age would be
>>>>>>>>somewhere around 65 years old, upon which it would be limited because
>>>>>>>>of age related problems. People would be allowed to drive for a few
>>>>>>>>months of their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IF we have to make an arbitrary age I simply said 21.
>>>>>>> And there are very few 16 year olds mature enough to drive. And less
>>>>>>> now than there were 30 years ago. The kids today are idiots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>of course 30 years ago people said: "The kids today are idiots"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This could be a free country if it weren't for people's desires to
>>>>>>control others.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to know the streets are safe when I'm driving. I was a Drivers
>>>>> Trainer in the Army and I have a CDL. 16 year olds are NOT capable of
>>>>> being trusted to drive except under very ridged circumstances.
>>>>
>>>>'safety' is always the excuse of the tyrant and control freak.
>>>>
>>> It's called society.
>>
>>No it's not. Society declines as government control increases.

> That's an opinion and not a fact.

Prove me wrong. Name a society that has thrived under government
micromanagement and a police state.