How would an experienced driver have handled this?
in [Cars]
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From: Mentalguy2k8 on 18 Jul 2010 12:05 "Jo" <joanna.hamilton90(a)gmail.com> wrote in message news:cc357b2e-5fa8-446f-b65b-8c46eb71b8da(a)w12g2000yqj.googlegroups.com... > Hello all, > > I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( > > Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately > behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was about 150 > yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built up behind me. > > I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. It was too slow > for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to speed > up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I Firstly, don't *ever* be "pressured" into doing anything on the road. You weren't holding anyone up, the horse was, and if the people behind you were getting impatient then they all had the opportunity to overtake you *and* the horse.... which leads into the 2nd point: Don't make any move unless you're sure it's absolutely safe from start to finish. If you forced oncoming cars to swerve/brake, then it wasn't safe to do, and may be a clue as to why other cars were bunched up behind you and not overtaking you and the horse themselves. May be an idea to pay for some extra lessons and spend time with an instructor on various roads like country lanes, motorways and so on, try to go places where you'll encounter different obstacles and scenarios with someone experienced beside you. If you're making dangerous decisions and panicking into missing gear changes, along with being unable to build up enough speed to overtake a horse carriage, it would suggest that you're not ready to drive on your own. As to the question, if I'd been in your position I'd have given the middle finger to the people behind me, given myself plenty of time to overtake (not overtaking until I was happy with *every*thing), and if it all went pear-shaped halfway through and the horse starts matching your speed with oncoming traffic ahead, then a quick dab on the brakes and you'd be back behind him, no harm done.
From: Mentalguy2k8 on 18 Jul 2010 12:11 "Flop" <Flop(a)flop.knot.me.uk> wrote in message news:ArSdnVqHc_Ywk97RnZ2dnUVZ8iidnZ2d(a)brightview.co.uk... > Jo wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( >> >> Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately >> behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was about 150 >> yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built up behind me. >> >> I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. It was too slow >> for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to speed >> up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I sped up to about >> 30mph and was now astride the rear wheels of the vehicle. I fumbled >> the 2-3rd gear change (seemed stuck and cost me a few seconds to try >> again) and oncoming traffic lead by a truck was now too close. There >> was enough space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't >> expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be closed up so quickly >> >> So having no choice I floored the accelerator to 60mph on 3rd gear. >> The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to make way for me >> and three vehicles were astride at one point. >> >> If you were in that situation what would you have done? I couldn't >> have gone back and it seems the only way was to get past and in front >> of the horse trailer. >> >> Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver and my >> confidence has been badly shaken today already :( >> >> Jo > > Bad mistake - > > Never mind what you could have done. > > See how many lessons you have learned. > > Draw a line under the incident - it will never happen the same again. Making a unneccessary dangerous manouvre when you don't want to, and then panicking into missing gears and so on, will still happen whatever the cause.
From: Steve Firth on 18 Jul 2010 12:10 Dave Head <rally2xs(a)att.net> wrote: I'm defeated by INN's rejection of excessive quoted text so I'll have to slash quoted text from the reply. > On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:54:27 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) > wrote: [snip] > >1. You should not have been "immediately" behind the horse and carriage. > >Being too close can cause the horse to shy or bolt, not good in either > >case. > > I think it was a horse TRAILER, not a horse-drawn carriage. Well the OP clearly said a horse carriage, not a horse trailer. So I'm not sure why you wrote TRAILER in scary capitals. You're guessing at her intended meaning and taking a leap of faith about her misuse of language. [snip] > >2. You should hang back and take a commanding position on the road [snip] > I don't agee with that. I think if you hang back and start your > maneuver as a surprise, then you're less likely to get a hanger-on > that wants to do it on your rear bumper as well, and thus limits your > options to quit the maneuver if things aren't going well. <shrug> You're allowed to have the wrong idea, I just hope I'm not around when you practice your brainwave of overtaking "as a surprise". Nothing you do should come as a surprise to anyone else on the road. > >3. There is no pressure. The worst that can happen is that some > >impatient sod behind overtakes you and the carriage. So what? He's the > >prat and you are the sensible driver. > > Well, its not completely without risk, either. If he screws up, you > are likely to become part of his accident. Not if you are driving sensibly and in an appropriate position. > But its true that you shouldn't feel pressure to pass. It was all true. > >4. Doing as you describe, racing the engine, fumbling the gear changes > >and generally making a hash of it must have been worrying for horse and > >carriage driver. > > I think it was a horsetrailer, drawn by a truck. No horse-drawn > vehicle is going to be going 20 mph, I take you haven't been around any area of the country where trotting carriage are taken out on the road? > let alone be suspected of speeding up much. A horse trailer or horse box is unlikely to have speeded up much while being overtaken either. Many drivers think the overtaking vehicle has speeded up because their overtake is slower than they think it should be. So far there's you and you and thinks that a horse carriage is a trailer. Until the OP clarifies their intended meaning I admit that my degree in telepathy was a failure. [snip] > Passing on 2-lane roads is a full throttle situation until you get to > the speed you're absolutely sure is sufficient to make the pass. With any decent car or even with an average car on a damp road that would see you facing the other direction after colliding with the scenery and other road users several times. Even on a shopping trolley full throttle overtakes are rarely necessary and not at all desirable when passing horses. > I _always_ absolutely floorboard the throttle unless I can see absolutely > to the horizon and know there are zero oncoming cars. Optical illusions > can make a car you can see but think is far away to be closer than you > think. See previous comment about not wanting to be near you when you are on the road. > >6. Once past the vehicle allow plenty of room before dropping back, you > >should be able to see the horses face in the rear view mirror before > >dropping back. > > Or the headlights of the truck pulling the horsetrailer, and that > would be the _inside_ rear-view mirror, not the door-mounted one. <sigh> Did I say door mirror? No, I didn't. > >7. If there's no room to do this safely and slowly don't even think > >about trying an overtake. > > Right. > > >Your failure was because you were panicked into doing something that you > >should not do. The cause of that panic was something happening in your > >head. > > Yep. At last we agree.
From: harry on 18 Jul 2010 12:22 On 18 July, 15:27, Flop <F...(a)flop.knot.me.uk> wrote: > Jo wrote: > > Hello all, > > > I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( > > > Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately > > behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was about 150 > > yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built up behind me. > > > I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. It was too slow > > for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to speed > > up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I sped up to about > > 30mph and was now astride the rear wheels of the vehicle. I fumbled > > the 2-3rd gear change (seemed stuck and cost me a few seconds to try > > again) and oncoming traffic lead by a truck was now too close. There > > was enough space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't > > expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be closed up so quickly > > > So having no choice I floored the accelerator to 60mph on 3rd gear. > > The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to make way for me > > and three vehicles were astride at one point. > > > If you were in that situation what would you have done? I couldn't > > have gone back and it seems the only way was to get past and in front > > of the horse trailer. > > > Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver and my > > confidence has been badly shaken today already :( > > > Jo > > Bad mistake - > > Never mind what you could have done. > > See how many lessons you have learned. > > Draw a line under the incident - it will never happen the same again. > > Flop- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - The above is good advice. Next time someome crowds you ignore them or give them the two fingered salute. This relieves pressure no end!
From: Mike Ross on 18 Jul 2010 12:25
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 06:39:56 -0700 (PDT), Jo <joanna.hamilton90(a)gmail.com> wrote: >Hello all, > >I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( > >Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately >behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was about 150 >yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built up behind me. > >I felt pressured into overtaking Big mistake. You overtake when YOU are ready and not before. If you're driving a slowish vehicle and/or you're a slowish driver, leave a good gap between you and the vehicle you're trying to pass; do NOT sit on their tail. This has five good effects: 1. You're not tailgating! 2. You leave a gap into which a faster, more powerful car behind you can pull, as they overtake first you and then the vehicle in front of you. 3. You get much better sight lines to see the road ahead and judge when it's safe to overtake. 4. You have some space in which you can build up speed *before* crossing to the wrong side of the road to overtake; much better than pulling out while going at the same speed as the vehicle in front and THEN starting to accelerate. 5. Sitting on the tail of someone you're trying to pass is *stressful* - and it's needless stress, for the above reasons. >the horse carriage. It was too slow >for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to speed >up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I sped up to about >30mph and was now astride the rear wheels of the vehicle. I fumbled >the 2-3rd gear change (seemed stuck and cost me a few seconds to try >again) and oncoming traffic lead by a truck was now too close. There >was enough space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't >expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be closed up so quickly Big mistake number two: at that point you were NOT committed to the pass and should have braked, indicated left, and pulled back in again. If 'your spot' behind the trailer had been 'closed up' that's not YOUR problem - the person who 'closed up' the spot is driving FAR too close if there's no room for you to pull in, and they're going to HAVE to hit the brakes hard and make room for you when you pull back in. Don't hesitate to abort an overtake if you've misjudged, conditions change, or it's not safe! >So having no choice I floored the accelerator Big mistake number three: You weren't already at full throttle?! When overtaking, ALWAYS use full throttle! It's there to be used, and that's one of the things it's supposed to be used for! >to 60mph on 3rd gear. >The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to make way for me >and three vehicles were astride at one point. That's dangerous driving right there. If you had been caught you wouldn't be driving anywhere any time soon. It was a mistake born of inexperience and lack of confidence perhaps, but that's just as much dangerous driving as some young idiot showing off. This is exactly the kind of thing that leads to multi-fatal collisons. >If you were in that situation what would you have done? I couldn't >have gone back Yes you bloody well could and should. >and it seems the only way was to get past and in front >of the horse trailer. > >Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver and my >confidence has been badly shaken today already :( I think you need more lessons. Especially on overtaking. Seriously. I don't doubt you've had a hell of a fright and won't be overtaking anything faster than a guy with a Zimmer frame any time soon, but still. Did I read you're in Cambridge, in a previous thread? Call BSM Cambridge and ask if Dave Beer is still instructing. He's good. Mike -- http://www.corestore.org 'As I walk along these shores I am the history within' |