How would an experienced driver have handled this?
in [Cars]
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From: Gareth on 18 Jul 2010 13:21 On 18/07/2010 14:39, Jo wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( > > Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately > behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was about 150 > yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built up behind me. > > I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. An option here would be to leave a big enough gap between you and the horse carriage for other cars to overtake you. If you do this leave a really big gap so that it is clear to drivers behind that you have no intention of overtaking and there is plenty of room for them to safely get past you. > It was too slow > for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to speed > up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I sped up to about > 30mph and was now astride the rear wheels of the vehicle. I fumbled > the 2-3rd gear change You can get better acceleration in lower gears and I think you should be able to get past a vehicle doing 30mph in 2nd gear. (seemed stuck and cost me a few seconds to try > again) and oncoming traffic lead by a truck was now too close. There > was enough space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't > expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be closed up so quickly If you need to overtake make sure you have enough space. Don't forget that the vehicles coming the other way could legally be going 60 mph and on a clear stretch of A road on a clear day may well be doing a lot more. If you think you have just enough space don't risk it leave considerable margin for error. > So having no choice I floored the accelerator to 60mph on 3rd gear. In most cases it should have already been floored so that you get the overtaking completed as quickly as possible. However for a horse drawn vehicle you may want to consider keeping engine revs down to avoid frightening the horse. > The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to make way for me > and three vehicles were astride at one point. > > If you were in that situation what would you have done? I couldn't > have gone back and it seems the only way was to get past and in front > of the horse trailer. was it a horse drawn carriage or a trailer? for a horse drawn vehicle you have the added problem of leaving as much space as possible to avoid frightening the horse. > > Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver and my > confidence has been badly shaken today already :( > > Jo
From: Gareth on 18 Jul 2010 13:24 On 18/07/2010 16:19, steve robinson wrote: > Mrcheerful wrote: > >> >> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message >> news:xn0gws8gkbexb8001(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>> Jo wrote: >>> >>>> Hello all, >>>> >>>> I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( >>>> >>>> Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road >>>> immediately behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph >>>> road. I was about 150 yards past the roundabout and a queue of >>>> cars had built up behind me. >>>> >>>> I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. It was too >>>> slow for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage >>>> seemed to speed up as I was overtaking them (but can't be >>>> sure). I sped up to about 30mph and was now astride the rear >>>> wheels of the vehicle. I fumbled the 2-3rd gear change (seemed >>>> stuck and cost me a few seconds to try again) and oncoming >>>> traffic lead by a truck was now too close. There was enough >>>> space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't >>>> expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be closed up so >>>> quickly >>>> >>>> So having no choice I floored the accelerator to 60mph on 3rd >>>> gear. The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to >>>> make way for me and three vehicles were astride at one point. >>>> >>>> If you were in that situation what would you have done? I >>>> couldn't have gone back and it seems the only way was to get >>>> past and in front of the horse trailer. >>>> >>>> Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver >>>> and my confidence has been badly shaken today already :( >>>> >>>> Jo >>> >>> I cant see a horse carriage speeding up that much , you should >>> have started your acceleration move earlier and been in the >>> correct gear before you decided to make the manoeuvre >>> >>> Starting the manoeuvre earlier would have avoided hard , high >>> revving acceleration which is not sensible when passing anything >>> on four legs >>> >> >> I took the meaning as being a horse box either lorry or trailer. > > No she clearly said carriage Initially yes, but then in the 2nd to last paragraph she said "horse trailer"
From: Dave Head on 18 Jul 2010 13:28 On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:04:33 +0000 (UTC), "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote: >Mike Ross wrote: > >> On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 06:39:56 -0700 (PDT), Jo >> <joanna.hamilton90(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Hello all, >> > >> > I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( >> > >> > Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road immediately >> > behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph road. I was >> > about 150 yards past the roundabout and a queue of cars had built >> > up behind me. >> > >> > I felt pressured into overtaking >> >> Big mistake. You overtake when YOU are ready and not before. If >> you're driving a slowish vehicle and/or you're a slowish driver, >> leave a good gap between you and the vehicle you're trying to pass; >> do NOT sit on their tail. This has five good effects: >> >> 1. You're not tailgating! >> 2. You leave a gap into which a faster, more powerful car behind >> you can pull, as they overtake first you and then the vehicle in >> front of you. 3. You get much better sight lines to see the road >> ahead and judge when it's safe to overtake. >> 4. You have some space in which you can build up speed before >> crossing to the wrong side of the road to overtake; much better >> than pulling out while going at the same speed as the vehicle in >> front and THEN starting to accelerate. 5. Sitting on the tail of >> someone you're trying to pass is stressful - and it's needless >> stress, for the above reasons. >> >> > the horse carriage. It was too slow >> > for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage seemed to >> > speed up as I was overtaking them (but can't be sure). I sped up >> > to about 30mph and was now astride the rear wheels of the >> > vehicle. I fumbled the 2-3rd gear change (seemed stuck and cost >> > me a few seconds to try again) and oncoming traffic lead by a >> > truck was now too close. There was enough space if I didn't >> > fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't expect my spot behind the >> > horse trailer to be closed up so quickly >> >> Big mistake number two: at that point you were NOT committed to the >> pass and should have braked, indicated left, and pulled back in >> again. If 'your spot' behind the trailer had been 'closed up' >> that's not YOUR problem > >Actually it is , if the ops committed herself to a manouvre fucked >said manouvre up then tries to force herself back into the now >occupied position she will be at fault for any resulting accident At that point, the focus is on surviving, and laws are of no consequence whatsoever. You do what you have to do in order not to die. >Sticking your breaks on and indicating your intention to pull in >doesnt mean the other drivers have to allow you in If they don't, they may die to. >- the person who 'closed up' the spot is >> driving FAR too close if there's no room for you to pull in, and >> they're going to HAVE to hit the brakes hard and make room for you >> when you pull back in. Don't hesitate to abort an overtake if >> you've misjudged, conditions change, or it's not safe! > >Utter bollocks Yes, a following car blocking the area behind the horsetrailer is following too close. At 20 mph, that's 58 ft following distance for the recommended 2 seconds following distance, and should be available to pull into. >> > So having no choice I floored the accelerator >> >> Big mistake number three: You weren't already at full throttle?! >> When overtaking, ALWAYS use full throttle! It's there to be used, >> and that's one of the things it's supposed to be used for! > >Again utter bollocks you never race your engine at full throttle past >horses , what you should do is start the manouvre far earlier >building up your speed Again, do you have a muffler problem? The critter isn't going to know if you have the throttle wide open otherwise, and passing is a full throttle proposition on a 2 lane road.
From: Mrcheerful on 18 Jul 2010 13:34 Gareth wrote: > On 18/07/2010 16:19, steve robinson wrote: >> Mrcheerful wrote: >> >>> >>> "steve robinson" <steve(a)colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message >>> news:xn0gws8gkbexb8001(a)news.eternal-september.org... >>>> Jo wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> I'm quite shaken as I had a brush with the grim reaper today :( >>>>> >>>>> Coming off a roundabout, I was driving along an A-road >>>>> immediately behind a horse carriage doing 20 mph in a 60 mph >>>>> road. I was about 150 yards past the roundabout and a queue of >>>>> cars had built up behind me. >>>>> >>>>> I felt pressured into overtaking the horse carriage. It was too >>>>> slow for 3rd gear and I was in 2nd gear. The horse carriage >>>>> seemed to speed up as I was overtaking them (but can't be >>>>> sure). I sped up to about 30mph and was now astride the rear >>>>> wheels of the vehicle. I fumbled the 2-3rd gear change (seemed >>>>> stuck and cost me a few seconds to try again) and oncoming >>>>> traffic lead by a truck was now too close. There was enough >>>>> space if I didn't fumble the 2-3rd gear change and didn't >>>>> expect my spot behind the horse trailer to be closed up so >>>>> quickly >>>>> >>>>> So having no choice I floored the accelerator to 60mph on 3rd >>>>> gear. The oncoming traffic went to the left of their lane to >>>>> make way for me and three vehicles were astride at one point. >>>>> >>>>> If you were in that situation what would you have done? I >>>>> couldn't have gone back and it seems the only way was to get >>>>> past and in front of the horse trailer. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for any advice. Please don't flame me I'm a new driver >>>>> and my confidence has been badly shaken today already :( >>>>> >>>>> Jo >>>> >>>> I cant see a horse carriage speeding up that much , you should >>>> have started your acceleration move earlier and been in the >>>> correct gear before you decided to make the manoeuvre >>>> >>>> Starting the manoeuvre earlier would have avoided hard , high >>>> revving acceleration which is not sensible when passing anything >>>> on four legs >>>> >>> >>> I took the meaning as being a horse box either lorry or trailer. >> >> No she clearly said carriage > > Initially yes, but then in the 2nd to last paragraph she said "horse > trailer" a horse carriage would be something to carry a horse, as opposed to a horse-drawn carriage or a horse and carriage. It is also difficult to imagine a horse drawn carriage accelerating from twenty MPH upwards by anything really, especially on the road.
From: Fat richard on 18 Jul 2010 13:48
On 18 July, 15:54, %ste...(a)malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth) wrote: > Ian <i...(a)henden.co.uk> wrote: > > Why *twice*? because anything coming intop sight from > > the opposite direction, is likely to be travelling at much the same > > speed as you are, so the gap is getting smaller twice as quickly as > > you thought. > > On an "A" road (presumably NSL) oncoming traffic in this case would be > going three times faster than the overtaking vehicle leading to a very > narrow overtaking opportunity. Even more care needed than usual. I have lived in London now for about 8 years and am very comfortable with driving in the suburbs and central London at all times of day. Before this I lived in deepest Bedfordshire and drove for about 20 of these years in a car and prior to that a motorbike. Aside from a few visits down the A1 / M11 back home or the A12 to the in laws andr indeed a fairly frequent traveller abroad, I don't do that much driving on "normal" roads in this country anymore. Last Easter we drove down to the bracing delights of Skegness - Dont ask why please - and I was suddenly smacked in the face when I realised that I was back in the world of overtaking on A / B / minor roads again. It really was that long since I had been on roads where overtaking was pretty much required in order to actually get where we were going in any reasonable amount of time. I know it sounds stupid, but the first time that I had to get going past some lorries etc it really sort of whacked me in the face. I was not especially "worried" it was more like a Tango advert..... I believe I actually remarked "Oooh I am overtaking" which probably seemed obvious to the wife and kids........ Richard |