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From: Geoff Mackenzie on 12 Jul 2010 06:58
There's a full-page plug, thinly disguised as a feature (although they do
put a disclaimer at the end) in the current Jaguar Enthusiast magazine, for
a "hydrogen fuel cell" which claims to reduce emissions to zero, increase
engine performance and eliminate carbon deposits. Oh, and by the way, on
trial in an S-Type 3 litre the mpg went from 25.2 to 38.87, a 54.2%
improvement. Mine for a mere �599 + VAT. The people behind it are De Verde
Technologies; a quick Google indicates that they seem to be registered at a
private house in Devon, and they have not filed any company accounts since
they were incorporated in October 2008.

Do I detect a slight whiff of snake oil here? Lead pellets, magnetic fields
and all the other things the major manufacturers seem to have unaccountably
overlooked?

GMacK

From: Adrian on 12 Jul 2010 07:08
"Geoff Mackenzie" <gmac(a)chapterfive.org.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying:

> Do I detect a slight whiff of snake oil here? Lead pellets, magnetic
> fields and all the other things the major manufacturers seem to have
> unaccountably overlooked?

This mob...
http://www.hydrogenhybrids.uk.com/

Yes, it definitely looks fishy. Isn't this just a re-hash of the old HHO
"Brown's Gas" snake-oil from a year or three ago?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen#Fringe_science_and_fraud

Best summed up by the Wikipedia heading...

Water-fuelled car
See also: Perpetual motion

But to suggest that the fuel cell's been overlooked isn't quite right -
they haven't. Several manufacturers have been working on hydrogen fuel
cells - but as a primary source, not as a strap-on.

http://www.sustainability.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/news/updates.htm?id=2906
From: Dave Plowman (News) on 12 Jul 2010 18:58
In article <8a0aqhFp8iU1(a)mid.individual.net>,
Geoff Mackenzie <gmac(a)chapterfive.org.uk> wrote:
> There's a full-page plug, thinly disguised as a feature (although they
> do put a disclaimer at the end) in the current Jaguar Enthusiast
> magazine, for a "hydrogen fuel cell" which claims to reduce emissions
> to zero, increase engine performance and eliminate carbon deposits.
> Oh, and by the way, on trial in an S-Type 3 litre the mpg went from
> 25.2 to 38.87, a 54.2% improvement. Mine for a mere �599 + VAT. The
> people behind it are De Verde Technologies; a quick Google indicates
> that they seem to be registered at a private house in Devon, and they
> have not filed any company accounts since they were incorporated in
> October 2008.

> Do I detect a slight whiff of snake oil here? Lead pellets, magnetic
> fields and all the other things the major manufacturers seem to have
> unaccountably overlooked?

Sadly many such magazines don't enquire into the validity of the ads they
carry. Car Mechanics carried adverts for the tin pellet devices long after
others had banned them.

Their claims are pure lies. To produce hydrogen by electrolysis takes more
energy than it produces. So only viable with a cheap source of
electricity. Not inefficiently produced by a car alternator driven off the
engine.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
From: Rob on 12 Jul 2010 19:58
On 13/07/2010 8:58 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>
> Sadly many such magazines don't enquire into the validity of the ads they
> carry. Car Mechanics carried adverts for the tin pellet devices long after
> others had banned them.
>
> Their claims are pure lies. To produce hydrogen by electrolysis takes more
> energy than it produces. So only viable with a cheap source of
> electricity. Not inefficiently produced by a car alternator driven off the
> engine.
>

Boeing Unveils Unmanned Phantom Eye Demonstrator

ST. LOUIS, July 12, 2010 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today unveiled
the hydrogen-powered Phantom Eye unmanned airborne system, a
demonstrator that will stay aloft at 65,000 feet for up to four days.

"Phantom Eye is the first of its kind and could open up a whole new
market in collecting data and communications," Darryl Davis, president
of Boeing Phantom Works, said today at the unveiling ceremony in St.
Louis. "It is a perfect example of turning an idea into a reality. It
defines our rapid prototyping efforts and will demonstrate the
art-of-the-possible when it comes to persistent intelligence,
surveillance and reconnaissance. The capabilities inherent in Phantom
Eye's design will offer game-changing opportunities for our military,
civil and commercial customers."

Later this summer, Phantom Eye will be shipped to NASA�s Dryden Flight
Research Center at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., to begin a series of
ground and taxi tests in preparation for its first flight in early 2011.
That debut flight is expected to last between four and eight hours.

"The program is moving quickly, and it�s exciting to be part of such a
unique aircraft," said Drew Mallow, Phantom Eye program manager for
Boeing. "The hydrogen propulsion system will be the key to Phantom Eye's
success. It is very efficient and offers great fuel economy, and its
only byproduct is water, so it's also a 'green' aircraft."

Phantom Eye is powered by two 2.3-liter, four-cylinder engines that
provide 150 horsepower each. It has a 150-foot wingspan, will cruise at
approximately 150 knots and can carry up to a 450-pound payload.

Key Phantom Eye suppliers and partners include Ford Motor Company
(engines); Aurora Flight Sciences (wing); Mahle Powertrain (propulsion
controls); Ball Aerospace (fuel tanks); Turbosolutions Engineering
(turbochargers); the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency; and NASA.

From: Dave Plowman (News) on 13 Jul 2010 05:33
In article <4c3bac18$1(a)dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
Rob <mesamine(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/07/2010 8:58 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> >
> > Sadly many such magazines don't enquire into the validity of the ads
> > they carry. Car Mechanics carried adverts for the tin pellet devices
> > long after others had banned them.
> >
> > Their claims are pure lies. To produce hydrogen by electrolysis takes
> > more energy than it produces. So only viable with a cheap source of
> > electricity. Not inefficiently produced by a car alternator driven off
> > the engine.
> >

> Boeing Unveils Unmanned Phantom Eye Demonstrator

[snip]

No details on how it works, or the source of the hydrogen. And costs never
worry the military.
I'm not disputing hydrogen can be a good energy source - this has been
known for years. The problem is producing it economically. If you have
'free' electricity that's one thing, but you don't onboard a car.

--
*If you jump off a Paris bridge, you are in Seine*

Dave Plowman dave(a)davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
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