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From: jim on 16 Jul 2010 11:09 "BSAKing(a)hotmail.com" wrote: > On Jul 12, 12:55 am, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote: > > On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:05:05 -0700 (PDT), "BSAK...(a)hotmail.com" > > > > > > > > <BSAK...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > >On Jul 9, 11:38 am, m6onz5a <corv...(a)comcast.net> wrote: > > >> On Jul 9, 11:29 am, "BSAK...(a)hotmail.com" <BSAK...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > >> > I have a 1976 vette with about 120K miles on it. > > > > >> > Last year I had to do a fair amount of work on it (spring, shocks, rad > > >> > support bracket, new rad, new water pump.). > > > > >> > It seems to have been developing a problem and I am not sure what it > > >> > is. > > > > >> > I thought it started about the time I installed the new water pump, > > >> > but that could be nothing more than sheer coincidence. It was making a > > >> > sort of slight rubbing/banging/knocking noise, and I thought it was > > >> > some minor machining discrepency causing a slight rubbing of the water > > >> > and main pulleys. There was a rubbing sound that went away after a > > >> > bit. > > > > >> > Yesterday I had to replace a motor mount and tightened a bit of > > >> > exhaust on the manifold. > > > > >> > Today the noise is back. But now It sounds morelike a banging/knocking > > >> > sound. The frequency increases with engine RPM. If I bring the engine > > >> > up to a modest rpm and hold it there , it seems to go away. It seems > > >> > worse when I first start it. > > > > >> > Now I am obviously not expecting a thorough diagnostic from this > > >> > description, but I am not a very experienced mechanic. Does it sounds > > >> > like the symptoms of a main/crank bearing or something terminal of > > >> > that nature? If so, I'm afraid old Betsy is doomed because I do not > > >> > have the facilities nor the resources to get it repaired ...... > > > > >> > FWIW, it still seems to run ok, oil pressure is normal, battery > > >> > charging, water temp, shifting etc.... I went around it with a crowbar > > >> > and using it on my ear as a poor man's stethoscope and was unable to > > >> > pinpoint the source of the problem (so far)... It definitely seems to > > >> > be coming from the bottom part of the front/engine somewhere..... > > > > >> > Thanks for any input. > > > > >> take a long screwdriver and place the tip on different parts of the > > >> motor and the other end against your ear, and see where it's loudest. > > > > >I went around it with a crowbar > > >and using it on my ear as a poor man's stethoscope and was unable to > > >pinpoint the source of the problem (so far)... It definitely seems to > > >be coming from the bottom part of the front/engine somewhere..... > > > > Crowbar is pretty heavy for that use. Get a 3 foot long 1/2 wood > > dowel from the hardware store and try that for your stethoscope. Round > > off the edges of the end that you'll put up against your ear and don't > > let it hit any moving parts. You seemed to indicate that the sound > > got worse after you tightened the exhaust parts. Maybe the exhaust is > > hitting something. Does this engine use a mechanical engine mounted > > fuel pump? I had one of those make a knocking noise like a bad lifter > > on one car. > > Sorry it took me awhile to find time to get to it, but .... > > Well, well, well - here's the skinny! > > I disconnected all the belts and fired it up and it makes normal > noises for a 35 year old engine! > > I hooked them up one by one and the noise was still gone. However, > more closely examining everything, the head of the bottom mounting > bolt for the power steering pump has snapped off. That allows some > degree of movement and hence the clanking noises I hear I think. > > Trying to remove it, it is in a different position so does not seem to > wiggle. I fired it up and sure enough - the noise seems to have gone > away. > > Now to effect a permanent fix, I need to see if that bottom bolt > screws into the mount assembly somehow or whether it can be punched > out. Looks like I may have to disconnect and remove the power steering > pump. Did the power steering pump have to be removed when you changed the water pump? I would guess that removing the steering pump and bracket is going to be the only way to get the broken bolt out. -jim > > > If I can do that and the noise has disappeared for good, I am a happy > camper, but I will not know until I get there I guess.....
From: BSAKing on 16 Jul 2010 11:39 > > Did the power steering pump have to be removed when you changed the water pump? I > would guess that removing the steering pump and bracket is going to be the only > way to get the broken bolt out. > > -jim > No - I never removed the PS at all nor touched it aside from loosening the adjustment bolt to get the belts off. Good grief - it never rains but it pours..... The bolt slides thru the steering pump body it seems, but there is a spacer nut on the back - too thin to get a wrench on and it is holding the power steering pump to the bracket. It is frozen on with time. If I try to spin it out, it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. I have the alternator and steering brackets off, but I cannot get the damned nut loose. If it were loose I could spin the bolt thru and replace it. And of course the head is snapped off so I cannot just break it loose. The power steering hoses are frozen to the assembly under the car so it will be really tough to try to get all that loose and remove it all.. Quite frankly I am reluctant to try that in case I really mess something up.... What to do? (Be gentle - I am no expert and admit it) ....... | | PS Pump| ===|[]======= <- Bolt thru pump body with head snapped off | | | | Nut holding bolt in (frozen to it) Power steering Bracket
From: jim on 16 Jul 2010 12:27 "BSAKing(a)hotmail.com" wrote: > > > > Did the power steering pump have to be removed when you changed the water pump? I > > would guess that removing the steering pump and bracket is going to be the only > > way to get the broken bolt out. > > > > -jim > > > > No - I never removed the PS at all nor touched it aside from loosening > the adjustment bolt to get the belts off. Usually you have to loosen the pivot bolt also. Is the pivot bolt the one that is broken? > > > Good grief - it never rains but it pours..... > > The bolt slides thru the steering pump body it seems, but there is a > spacer nut on the back - too thin to get a wrench on and it is holding > the power steering pump to the bracket. It is frozen on with time. If > I try to spin it out, it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. I don't understand your description. It sounds like you removed the pivot bolt and the bolt that adjusts the belt tension and you removed the belt. So now the PS hoses are all that prevents you from removing the PS pump from the car/ Is that what you are saying? The bolt that is broken passes through the bracket, through the PS body and then thru the bracket again and has a nut on it. Is that Right? Have you been able to turn the nut on the end of the broken bolt either way or is the nut welded to the bracket? You say it is frozen on with time but if you spin it out it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. That doesn't make any sense. Does the nut turn or doesn't it? Have you cleaned off the grime so that you can clearly see what you are looking at? -jim > > > I have the alternator and steering brackets off, but I cannot get the > damned nut loose. If it were loose I could spin the bolt thru and > replace it. And of course the head is snapped off so I cannot just > break it loose. > > The power steering hoses are frozen to the assembly under the car so > it will be really tough to try to get all that loose and remove it > all.. Quite frankly I am reluctant to try that in case I really mess > something up.... > > What to do? (Be gentle - I am no expert and admit it) ....... > > | | PS Pump| > ===|[]======= <- Bolt thru pump body with head snapped off > | | | > | Nut holding bolt in (frozen to it) > Power steering Bracket
From: BSAKing on 16 Jul 2010 17:05 On Jul 16, 12:27 pm, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m...(a)mwt.net> wrote: > "BSAK...(a)hotmail.com" wrote: > > > > Did the power steering pump have to be removed when you changed the water pump? I > > > would guess that removing the steering pump and bracket is going to be the only > > > way to get the broken bolt out. > > > > -jim > > > No - I never removed the PS at all nor touched it aside from loosening > > the adjustment bolt to get the belts off. > > Usually you have to loosen the pivot bolt also. Is the pivot bolt the one that is > broken? > > > > > Good grief - it never rains but it pours..... > > > The bolt slides thru the steering pump body it seems, but there is a > > spacer nut on the back - too thin to get a wrench on and it is holding > > the power steering pump to the bracket. It is frozen on with time. If > > I try to spin it out, it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. > > I don't understand your description. It sounds like you removed the pivot bolt and the > bolt that adjusts the belt tension and you removed the belt. So now the PS hoses are > all that prevents you from removing the PS pump from the car/ Is that what you are > saying? > *** Yes - but the P/S hose fittings are really on there with the passage of time. I fI can leave them on and fix the problem at hand as is, it would be great. > The bolt that is broken passes through the bracket, through the PS body and then thru > the bracket again and has a nut on it. Is that Right? >*** It has a nut on the end that I was able to get off with a washer and a lock washer. In addition it has a thinner nut that acts as a spacer between the pump body and the inside of the support bracket. It is Seized on the bolt. I tried to depict that in my ASCII diagram. > Have you been able to turn the nut on the end of the broken bolt either way or is > the nut welded to the bracket? You say it is frozen on with time but if you spin it out > it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. That doesn't make any sense. Does the > nut turn or doesn't it? Have you cleaned off the grime so that you can clearly see what > you are looking at? *** The inside bolt acting as a spacer is the one that turns and is seized and locks the bracket to the body. Of course I have cleaned off the grime. I have even taken a torch to it to try to loosen it but I have to be careful in such close quarters. I have a replacement bolt, nuts and spacers. I will try the torch again when I have a little more time to devote to it. Failing that, I will try get in with a dremel tool cutoff bit to slice that nut off. Unfortunately there is not enough clearance to get a hacksaw on it. > > -jim
From: BSAKing on 16 Jul 2010 17:30
On Jul 16, 5:05 pm, "BSAK...(a)hotmail.com" <BSAK...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > On Jul 16, 12:27 pm, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m...(a)mwt.net> wrote: > > > > > "BSAK...(a)hotmail.com" wrote: > > > > > Did the power steering pump have to be removed when you changed the water pump? I > > > > would guess that removing the steering pump and bracket is going to be the only > > > > way to get the broken bolt out. > > > > > -jim > > > > No - I never removed the PS at all nor touched it aside from loosening > > > the adjustment bolt to get the belts off. > > > Usually you have to loosen the pivot bolt also. Is the pivot bolt the one that is > > broken? > > > > Good grief - it never rains but it pours..... > > > > The bolt slides thru the steering pump body it seems, but there is a > > > spacer nut on the back - too thin to get a wrench on and it is holding > > > the power steering pump to the bracket. It is frozen on with time. If > > > I try to spin it out, it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. > > > I don't understand your description. It sounds like you removed the pivot bolt and the > > bolt that adjusts the belt tension and you removed the belt. So now the PS hoses are > > all that prevents you from removing the PS pump from the car/ Is that what you are > > saying? > > *** Yes - but the P/S hose fittings are really on there with the passage of time. I fI can leave them on and fix the problem at hand as is, it would be great. > > The bolt that is broken passes through the bracket, through the PS body and then thru > > the bracket again and has a nut on it. Is that Right? > >*** It has a nut on the end that I was able to get off with a washer and a lock washer. In addition it has a thinner nut that acts as a spacer between the pump body and the inside of the support bracket. It is Seized on the bolt. I tried to depict that in my ASCII diagram. > > Have you been able to turn the nut on the end of the broken bolt either way or is > > the nut welded to the bracket? You say it is frozen on with time but if you spin it out > > it locks the bracket tighter to the pump body. That doesn't make any sense. Does the > > nut turn or doesn't it? Have you cleaned off the grime so that you can clearly see what > > you are looking at? > > *** The inside bolt acting as a spacer is the one that turns and is > seized and locks the bracket to the body. Of course I have cleaned off > the grime. I have even taken a torch to it to try to loosen it but I > have to be careful in such close quarters. When I say it turns - I have the end nut off and there is no head on the bolt so the entire bolt turns with the 'spacer' nut seized on between the pump and the support bracket. > > I have a replacement bolt, nuts and spacers. I will try the torch > again when I have a little more time to devote to it. Failing that, I > will try get in with a dremel tool cutoff bit to slice that nut off. > Unfortunately there is not enough clearance to get a hacksaw on it. > > > |