From: Jason James on 9 May 2010 17:26
"John_H" <john4721(a)inbox.com> wrote in message
> Jason James wrote:
>>Not wishing to be the devil's advocate,...buuut, didnt you hear the race
>>getting all noisy? They dont just suddenly fly apart without plenty of
> A few days ago I climbed out of a tractor cab to be greeted by the
> sound of a squealing serpentine belt (the same sort modern cars use).
> You can be lucky sometimes... the bearing in the cast iron tensioner
> pulley must've seized when I cut the throttle back to idle after I'd
> pulled up, because the pulley was still almost cool enought to touch
> and the belt good enough to reuse. There were no prior warning sounds
> whatsoever, though I'd imagine the bearing would've felt rough had I
> checked it at the last service (which I hadn't).
As the race is only lubricated for the friction between the balls and cage,
I guess most failures are due to the cage falling apart or, the
case-hardening is too thin in the track?
> Here's what would've happened otherwise....
> The belt probably would've started smoking a minute or so after the
> bearing failed. If I didn't see the smoke, or smell the burning
> rubber, the belt would've also failed and there'd be an alternator
> warning light as well as a flashing fault code on the dash display.
> The air conditioner would cease cooling and the cab temperature would
> rise at an even quicker rate than the engine coolant in the absence of
> the fan and water pump.
> When the engine temperature rises (or the oil pressure drops) it's
> supposed to set off an alarm and a red button flashes. If you don't
> push the red button the engine shuts down automatically after a few
> seconds. If you push the red button it extends the running time to
> thirty seconds, which is meant to be sufficient to get off the highway
> (if that's where you happen to be at the time).
> The engine is a 12 y.o. Iveco diesel and there's absolutely no reason
> why any modern car couldn't incorporate exactly the same level of
> protection if the manufacturers chose to do it.
Its one of those things which never ceases to amaze. Why dont they build in
a few dollars of design, even if its a simple LARGE warning light,..anything
better than the pissy set-up most cars have now.
From: Neil Fisher on 10 May 2010 01:04
On Sun, 09 May 2010 11:54:28 +1000, D Walford
<dwalford(a)internode.on.net>, after considering some belly-button fluf,
>LOL, not too many women have a clue about cars.
>Before we could afford decent cars my wife was taught to keep an eye on
>gauges and warning lights and about the dire consequences of ignoring
>them but after driving near new cars for the last 10yrs I suspect her
>training has worn off, the new Forester doesn't even have a temp gauge,
>it has a blue light which is on when the engine is cold, no light when
>the temp is normal or a red light if its too hot.
Checked the Focus when we had it, and the temp gauge is somewhat
non-linear - it read rock-steady at half way on the gauge from about
75 all the way to 100 or so of water temp at the "radiator cap" (which
is actually at the over-flow bottle). I wonder how closely that
resembles the actual coolant temp at the thermostat, and if the answer
is "closely", then I also wonder how many cars are made the same way -
which appears to be that the gauge is really only the same as a light
Neil Fisher / Bob Young
personal opinion unless otherwise noted.
Looking for spark plug leads?
Check out http://www.magnecor.com.au
From: John McKenzie on 10 May 2010 03:06
> LPG fuel systems have a coolant loss/flow cutout built in... If the
> coolant flow through the convertor stops, it freezes up and stops
> fuel flow, thus shutting the engine down. :-)
I got stuck on a freeway off ramp on a 44 deg day, and proved that if
there's enough underbonnet heat, that's not necessarily the case.
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From: D Walford on 10 May 2010 06:35
On 9/05/2010 5:19 PM, John_H wrote:
> D Walford wrote:
>> On 9/05/2010 1:42 PM, John_H wrote:
>>> The engine is a 12 y.o. Iveco diesel and there's absolutely no reason
>>> why any modern car couldn't incorporate exactly the same level of
>>> protection if the manufacturers chose to do it.
>> Engine protection systems have been used on larger diesels for a very
>> long time and as you say there is no reason they couldn't be used on
>> computer equipped cars except it might affect spare sales which are
>> quite lucrative.
> Murphy switch gauges have been around for as long as I remember, and
> have saved many a large diesel from destruction. Catch is they cost
> around $300 a pop as an aftermarket accessory although there's no
> reason why they can't be fitted to any engine to monitor temperature
> and oil pressure and to shut down the engine before it shits itself
> (for those who don't bother to look at the gauges before they trip).
> Simple but effective mechanisms have also been around for just as as
> long. I can recall Deutz (air cooled) diesels having a switch on the
> belt tensioner that triggered an alarm buzzer if the fan belt broke.
> Modern heavy diesels have similar management systems to cars, except
> they're intentionally set up to be somewhat more operator friendly as
> well as to safeguard against component failures that aren't restricted
> merely to safety and emission related items. If a car can beep and
> bong because you haven't done up your seat belt it could just as
> easily be programmed to give a similar warning of fan belt breakage,
> overheating, loss of oil pressure, plus a host of other faults likely
> to lead to more serious failures.
DAF trucks have very good engine protection systems.
A driver ran over a rock in a car park which holed the sump, 30mins
later on a freeway he got a 30sec warning complete with an alarm and
flashing red lights that the engine was about to shut down.
No reason similar systems can't be used on cars.
From: D Walford on 10 May 2010 06:36
On 9/05/2010 6:58 PM, Doug Jewell wrote:
> Actually, I think waterpumps should be electric instead of driven by the
> fanbelt. This could have numerous benefits - speed could be set
> optimally, no risk of cavitation at high engine revs, or insufficient
> pumping on an idling but hot engine. Could also have the pump continue
> on for a minute or two after power-off, to eliminate the hot-spots that
> occur, especially if the engine is turned off just after running hard.
> Could also do away with the other common fail-point, the thermostat too.
> It could run at a low speed on a cold engine - just sufficient to keep a
> small amount of water moving, and then as the engine heats up, the flow
> rate could be increased.
Available right now to suit your car, the ones I know of are made by