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From: gpsman on 20 Jun 2010 01:04
On Jun 19, 2:39 pm, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote:
> being READY in situations where
> *you* would NOT be ready saves ME (and other LFBers) time (which
> translates into dozens of feet of less stopping distance).

Better technique precludes all but the most unexpected emergency
braking for which you can't really remain "ready". That would be
exhausting, which is detrimental to concentration.

Better to to operate in a manner intended to avoid emergency braking.
-----

- gpsman
From: Ashton Crusher on 20 Jun 2010 13:30
On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:31:45 +0000, Alexander Rogge
<a_rogge(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> You'd like to think so yet you never presented a shred of evidence for
>> any of your assertions whereas just the straight physics of the
>> situation prove LFB is superior.
>
>There are several problems related to braking with the left foot. The
>most noticeable is that the pedal positions in modern cars are often not
>intended to be used with the left foot, particularly those pedal
>configurations in cars with clutchless transmissions. It is not
>comfortable to hold the brake with the left foot, not without shifting
>the body in the seat.
>

I have never found a car where I could not comfortably LFB. But should
there be one then of course I would not do so. Just as I would not
shift with my right hand if I was driving a British car set up for the
driver sitting on the right side. Which raises another question, is
everyone who learned to drive in Britain banned from driving in the US
because they have the wrong "habits" and will be confused?

>It is also difficult to apply maximum braking pressure because the left
>leg is at the wrong angle to the brake pedal. Left Foot Braking is
>possible for the situations intended in rapid braking and acceleration,
>but braking with the left foot as a regular method of slowing and
>stopping the car is not recommended unless the pedal configuration was
>designed to support this behaviour.
>

An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.


>An additional problem arises when considering that, in a situation
>requiring the application of maximum braking pressure and no forward
>acceleration, the likely and often unavoidable result would be that the
>driver pushes on both the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal while
>attempting to stop the car. Unless the heel of the right foot is
>shifted at such an angle in contrast to the normal driving position for
>forward acceleration, the right foot will be pushed down onto the pedal
>by the braking force as the driver's body is pulled forward.
>

An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.

>This is the intended result of Left Foot Braking. I want the contact
>wheels to be accelerated while the brake callipers close on the free
>wheels. That's what provides the control mechanism. To abort the
>manoeuvre and stop completely requires that my right foot be pulled back
>forcibly, and that is not easy when the car is being decelerated at such
>a rate as would be provided by a modern braking system and the
>associated cornering manoeuvre. A collision or a rollover can occur
>during the delay between the shifting of the pedal positions and the
>subsequent confusion in the few seconds before the car responds to the
>driver's changed intentions.
>

An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.


>During a panic stop, a method of crashing is attempting to ascertain
>which foot is on which pedal, while also attempting to steer and avoid
>other objects in fractions of a second. There is no way to hold the
>right foot directly over the accelerator pedal during hard cornering,
>while also braking and turning the steering wheel. The problem is not
>related to mental concentration; it is simply impossible to safely hold
>the right foot in that heeled position while the driver's body is being
>forced forward and to the side directions as the car is stopped and turned.
>

An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.

>In a normal car with a clutch, braking with the left foot during a panic
>stop also means that the driver can stall the car because the clutch
>pedal is not depressed. This would mean that that driver would be
>unable to continue driving if moving the car became necessary to avoid
>another collision immediately. The proper procedure is to brake with
>the right foot, depress the clutch with the left foot, and prepare to
>shift back to first-gear and accelerate away from the area.
>

You don't LFB in a stick shift. Just as you don't LFB only in an
aircraft. And you use both your hand and foot to brake on a
motorcycle. Oddly, when these have been pointed out in the past you
fine folks always ignore the fact that people manage to drive cars,
planes, motorcycles, boats, jet skis, etc, all of which use hands and
feet differently, and yet they manage to do so with no trouble
adjusting to the different needs. Yet you oh-so-skilled-experts are
completely overwhelmed at even the thought of using your left foot for
more then pushing the clutch if you are driving a car.

>I know of no driving school, including the school where I received
>instructions of Left Foot Braking, that teaches the method of stopping
>the car with the left foot while the right foot is held in a heeled
>position over the accelerator pedal. There very good reasons for this
>omission, topics regarding safety and some difficulties which I have
>hopefully made clear.

Your paragraph makes no sense, like most of what you wrote.
From: Nate Nagel on 20 Jun 2010 13:40
On 06/20/2010 01:17 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 23:52:19 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2010-06-19, Alexander Rogge<a_rogge(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>> You'd like to think so yet you never presented a shred of evidence for
>>>> any of your assertions whereas just the straight physics of the
>>>> situation prove LFB is superior.
>>
>>> There are several problems related to braking with the left foot.
>>
>> The problem with left foot braking is depressing the clutch and brake
>> pedal at the same time. Simple as that. No more discussion is needed.
>
> It's not recommended when driving a manual.

In fact, it is not recommended at all, outside of certain exceptions
which don't apply to normal driving on public roads.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
From: Harry K on 20 Jun 2010 16:34
On Jun 20, 10:30 am, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:31:45 +0000, Alexander Rogge
>
> <a_ro...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> You'd like to think so yet you never presented a shred of evidence for
> >> any of your assertions whereas just the straight physics of the
> >> situation prove LFB is superior.
>
> >There are several problems related to braking with the left foot.  The
> >most noticeable is that the pedal positions in modern cars are often not
> >intended to be used with the left foot, particularly those pedal
> >configurations in cars with clutchless transmissions.  It is not
> >comfortable to hold the brake with the left foot, not without shifting
> >the body in the seat.
>
> I have never found a car where I could not comfortably LFB. But should
> there be one then of course I would not do so.  Just as I would not
> shift with my right hand if I was driving a British car set up for the
> driver sitting on the right side.  Which raises another question, is
> everyone who learned to drive in Britain banned from driving in the US
> because they have the wrong "habits" and will be confused?
>
> >It is also difficult to apply maximum braking pressure because the left
> >leg is at the wrong angle to the brake pedal.  Left Foot Braking is
> >possible for the situations intended in rapid braking and acceleration,
> >but braking with the left foot as a regular method of slowing and
> >stopping the car is not recommended unless the pedal configuration was
> >designed to support this behaviour.
>
> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.
>
> >An additional problem arises when considering that, in a situation
> >requiring the application of maximum braking pressure and no forward
> >acceleration, the likely and often unavoidable result would be that the
> >driver pushes on both the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal while
> >attempting to stop the car.  Unless the heel of the right foot is
> >shifted at such an angle in contrast to the normal driving position for
> >forward acceleration, the right foot will be pushed down onto the pedal
> >by the braking force as the driver's body is pulled forward.
>
> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.
>
> >This is the intended result of Left Foot Braking.  I want the contact
> >wheels to be accelerated while the brake callipers close on the free
> >wheels.  That's what provides the control mechanism.  To abort the
> >manoeuvre and stop completely requires that my right foot be pulled back
> >forcibly, and that is not easy when the car is being decelerated at such
> >a rate as would be provided by a modern braking system and the
> >associated cornering manoeuvre.  A collision or a rollover can occur
> >during the delay between the shifting of the pedal positions and the
> >subsequent confusion in the few seconds before the car responds to the
> >driver's changed intentions.
>
> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.
>
> >During a panic stop, a method of crashing is attempting to ascertain
> >which foot is on which pedal, while also attempting to steer and avoid
> >other objects in fractions of a second.  There is no way to hold the
> >right foot directly over the accelerator pedal during hard cornering,
> >while also braking and turning the steering wheel.  The problem is not
> >related to mental concentration; it is simply impossible to safely hold
> >the right foot in that heeled position while the driver's body is being
> >forced forward and to the side directions as the car is stopped and turned.
>
> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur.
>
> >In a normal car with a clutch, braking with the left foot during a panic
> >stop also means that the driver can stall the car because the clutch
> >pedal is not depressed.  This would mean that that driver would be
> >unable to continue driving if moving the car became necessary to avoid
> >another collision immediately.  The proper procedure is to brake with
> >the right foot, depress the clutch with the left foot, and prepare to
> >shift back to first-gear and accelerate away from the area.
>
> You don't LFB in a stick shift.  Just as you don't LFB only in an
> aircraft.  And you use both your hand and foot to brake on a
> motorcycle.  Oddly, when these have been pointed out in the past you
> fine folks always ignore the fact that people manage to drive cars,
> planes, motorcycles, boats, jet skis, etc, all of which use hands and
> feet differently, and yet they manage to do so with no trouble
> adjusting to the different needs.  Yet you oh-so-skilled-experts are
> completely overwhelmed at even the thought of using your left foot for
> more then pushing the clutch if you are driving a car.  
>
> >I know of no driving school, including the school where I received
> >instructions of Left Foot Braking, that teaches the method of stopping
> >the car with the left foot while the right foot is held in a heeled
> >position over the accelerator pedal.  There very good reasons for this
> >omission, topics regarding safety and some difficulties which I have
> >hopefully made clear.
>
> Your paragraph makes no sense, like most of what you wrote.

Nice handwaving and ignorign of everything that was said. Too bad
what was said shot holes in all your arguments.

Harry K
From: Ashton Crusher on 24 Jun 2010 01:45
On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 02:14:19 -0400, Arif Khokar <akhokar1234(a)wvu.edu>
wrote:

>On 6/17/2010 12:55 AM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
>> So you think the people who will be using that bridge are going to
>> stop in the middle and take training classes???
>
>I don't know if you have any experience driving in countries where one
>drives on the left side of the road or not, but I have. I can tell you
>that for me, the adjustment is a bit difficult and I have to really
>concentrate when trying to control the vehicle, learning to use the turn
>signal stalk on the right side, rather than left side of the steering
>column, drive on the correct side of the road, and even adjusting where
>I look when I need to check the mirrors, etc.
>
>I don't think you thought your analogy all the way through.


I think you miss the point. If people are believed to be competent
enough to drive from a left side country to a right side country and
to make the switch in mid-stream in the middle of a clever bridge
design that crosses the national border, it seems safe to say that
people are going to be able to manage the fairly simple challenge of
using the left foot to brake in some cars and their right foot to
brake in other cars. Just as they manage to use the right foot and
hand to brake on a motorcycle (while the left foot is shifting) and
both their right and left feet simultaneously to brake AND steer (on
the ground) in an airplane. People make these accommodations all the
time out in the real world but somehow the "experts" here in RAD
profess to be completely unable to manage the simplest of these things
all the while claiming they're skills are so finely tuned that they
can out brake the best Anti Lock braking systems.
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