Left Foot braking vs switching between driving on the left and driving on the right side of the road.
in [Drive]
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From: Ashton Crusher on 24 Jun 2010 02:19 On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:46:27 -0400, Nate Nagel <njnagel(a)roosters.net> wrote: >On 06/20/2010 01:30 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote: >> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:31:45 +0000, Alexander Rogge >> <a_rogge(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >>> I know of no driving school, including the school where I received >>> instructions of Left Foot Braking, that teaches the method of stopping >>> the car with the left foot while the right foot is held in a heeled >>> position over the accelerator pedal. There very good reasons for this >>> omission, topics regarding safety and some difficulties which I have >>> hopefully made clear. >> >> Your paragraph makes no sense, like most of what you wrote. > >Questions for you: have you ever taken any kind of driving course? What >did it teach? Was it high-school driver's ed or some kind of more >advanced course? Did you ever run your opinions on LFBing by the >instructor? What did he think of them? > >nate High school. I have little recollection of much of the specifics of what they taught. The only two specifics I can recall are they taught us to slow down before a curve and accelerate thru it, even the gentle 45 mph sweepers - do you think that is the proper way to drive in suburban traffic? And they really hammered staying in the right lane on city streets where the road was 2 lanes in each direction - do you think that is the proper way to drive in that situation? I read quite a few books on driving and most likely read about LFB in one of them but who knows. Seems unlikely I dreamed it up out of nowhere - I have a fuzzy recollection that it was taught as a standard way to drive for a while when there was the huge shift from automatic transmissions being a "luxury" to them becoming pretty much standard during the late 50's and early 60's and they started using that really wide pedal. There is no reason for the pedal to be that wide if you don't intend people to use their left foot on it. I do find the whole LFBing discussions interesting mostly on a sociological/psychological basis. I doubt there is enough difference in "safety" between left and right FB styles to even be measurable if you could set up an experiment to measure it. It's about as significant as whether someone holds the steering wheel with one hand at the bottom (or top) or two hands at the sides yet the RFBers act like the very foundations of all that's good in the world is as stake. Maybe we should start a thread about where to hold the steering wheel.
From: Harry K on 24 Jun 2010 09:31 On Jun 24, 12:21 am, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote: > On Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:34:15 -0700 (PDT), Harry K > > > > > > <turnkey4...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > >On Jun 20, 10:30 am, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote: > >> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 22:31:45 +0000, Alexander Rogge > > >> <a_ro...(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >Ashton Crusher wrote: > >> >> You'd like to think so yet you never presented a shred of evidence for > >> >> any of your assertions whereas just the straight physics of the > >> >> situation prove LFB is superior. > > >> >There are several problems related to braking with the left foot. The > >> >most noticeable is that the pedal positions in modern cars are often not > >> >intended to be used with the left foot, particularly those pedal > >> >configurations in cars with clutchless transmissions. It is not > >> >comfortable to hold the brake with the left foot, not without shifting > >> >the body in the seat. > > >> I have never found a car where I could not comfortably LFB. But should > >> there be one then of course I would not do so. Just as I would not > >> shift with my right hand if I was driving a British car set up for the > >> driver sitting on the right side. Which raises another question, is > >> everyone who learned to drive in Britain banned from driving in the US > >> because they have the wrong "habits" and will be confused? > > >> >It is also difficult to apply maximum braking pressure because the left > >> >leg is at the wrong angle to the brake pedal. Left Foot Braking is > >> >possible for the situations intended in rapid braking and acceleration, > >> >but braking with the left foot as a regular method of slowing and > >> >stopping the car is not recommended unless the pedal configuration was > >> >designed to support this behaviour. > > >> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur. > > >> >An additional problem arises when considering that, in a situation > >> >requiring the application of maximum braking pressure and no forward > >> >acceleration, the likely and often unavoidable result would be that the > >> >driver pushes on both the accelerator pedal and the brake pedal while > >> >attempting to stop the car. Unless the heel of the right foot is > >> >shifted at such an angle in contrast to the normal driving position for > >> >forward acceleration, the right foot will be pushed down onto the pedal > >> >by the braking force as the driver's body is pulled forward. > > >> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur. > > >> >This is the intended result of Left Foot Braking. I want the contact > >> >wheels to be accelerated while the brake callipers close on the free > >> >wheels. That's what provides the control mechanism. To abort the > >> >manoeuvre and stop completely requires that my right foot be pulled back > >> >forcibly, and that is not easy when the car is being decelerated at such > >> >a rate as would be provided by a modern braking system and the > >> >associated cornering manoeuvre. A collision or a rollover can occur > >> >during the delay between the shifting of the pedal positions and the > >> >subsequent confusion in the few seconds before the car responds to the > >> >driver's changed intentions. > > >> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur. > > >> >During a panic stop, a method of crashing is attempting to ascertain > >> >which foot is on which pedal, while also attempting to steer and avoid > >> >other objects in fractions of a second. There is no way to hold the > >> >right foot directly over the accelerator pedal during hard cornering, > >> >while also braking and turning the steering wheel. The problem is not > >> >related to mental concentration; it is simply impossible to safely hold > >> >the right foot in that heeled position while the driver's body is being > >> >forced forward and to the side directions as the car is stopped and turned. > > >> An imaginary problem that simply doesn't occur. > > >> >In a normal car with a clutch, braking with the left foot during a panic > >> >stop also means that the driver can stall the car because the clutch > >> >pedal is not depressed. This would mean that that driver would be > >> >unable to continue driving if moving the car became necessary to avoid > >> >another collision immediately. The proper procedure is to brake with > >> >the right foot, depress the clutch with the left foot, and prepare to > >> >shift back to first-gear and accelerate away from the area. > > >> You don't LFB in a stick shift. Just as you don't LFB only in an > >> aircraft. And you use both your hand and foot to brake on a > >> motorcycle. Oddly, when these have been pointed out in the past you > >> fine folks always ignore the fact that people manage to drive cars, > >> planes, motorcycles, boats, jet skis, etc, all of which use hands and > >> feet differently, and yet they manage to do so with no trouble > >> adjusting to the different needs. Yet you oh-so-skilled-experts are > >> completely overwhelmed at even the thought of using your left foot for > >> more then pushing the clutch if you are driving a car. > > >> >I know of no driving school, including the school where I received > >> >instructions of Left Foot Braking, that teaches the method of stopping > >> >the car with the left foot while the right foot is held in a heeled > >> >position over the accelerator pedal. There very good reasons for this > >> >omission, topics regarding safety and some difficulties which I have > >> >hopefully made clear. > > >> Your paragraph makes no sense, like most of what you wrote. > > >Nice handwaving and ignorign of everything that was said. Too bad > >what was said shot holes in all your arguments. > > >Harry K > > Sure Harry, you keep telling yourself that.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - I don't have to keep telling you that. Everyone else has also done it. But keep on ignoring what is said here and all the cites that Nate gave you. Again: Unless you cover it 100 percent of the time you are delusional in thinking you are gaining any time. Harry K
From: Paul Hovnanian P.E. on 27 Jun 2010 22:27 Ashton Crusher wrote: > > Many people can't seem to fathom that anyone can use their left foot > to brake without careening out of control yet people routinely switch > from driving on the left side of the road to driving on the right side > with no difficulty. Cars in Great Britain have the accelerator pedal on the right, the brake to the left of that and the clutch (if any) to the left of the brake. Just like American cars. I'm guessing that other right hand drive cars are set up similarly. -- Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul(a)Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Smoking is one of the leading causes of statistics. -- Fletcher Knebel
From: gpsman on 28 Jun 2010 00:24
On Jun 27, 9:44 pm, Ashton Crusher <d...(a)moore.net> wrote: > When you are driving thru the > crowded walmart or Saks-Fifth Ave parking lot, which best avoiding > hitting the 3 year old that runs out from between parked cars.... the > LFBer with his foot poised over the brake or the RFB who's got his > braking foot pressed firmly on the gas pedal. False dichotomy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma > A difference of only a > couple feet may be the difference between not hitting the child and > having the front tire skid across her head. There are numerous > situations like this where the LFBer can be ready "just in case" where > the RFB will still have his braking foot planted firmly on the gas > pedal. One's foot should not be "firmly planted" on the throttle in a parking lot. There is no safety advantage to L foot braking that a choice of lesser velocity can not surpass by allowing more reaction time.. You guys who try to invent your own "safety" techniques are a hoot. Your unstated goal is to carry as much velocity as "safely" possible, where it is inappropriate. Better and more sure just to go slower. ----- - gpsman |