From: Halmyre on
I know it was a fatality, and such incidents have to be investigated,
but...*12* hours of closure?

--
Halmyre
From: Derek C on
On Jul 28, 7:31 am, Halmyre <flashgordonreced...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> I know it was a fatality, and such incidents have to be investigated,
> but...*12* hours of closure?
>
> --
> Halmyre

There does seem to be a policy of closing major roads for a inordinate
amount of time to investigate fatal accidents and other serious
incidents. Surely the Police only have to measure the skid marks and
take a few photographs, and the Highways Agency have to clear the
wreckage, which shouldn't take that long.

The other thing I find really annoying is reducing a Motorway to a
single lane for roadworks at night. There is nothing worse than coming
back after a long hard day, when you are already tired, only to have
to sit in a traffic jam for over an hour for this reason, especially
if nothing seems to be going on in the roadworks. The Northern section
of the M25 seems to be particularly bad in this respect at the moment.

Derek C
From: Ian Jackson on
In message
<81995c76-c31a-4567-8262-e5318d08ed1a(a)i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Derek C <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> writes
>On Jul 28, 7:31�am, Halmyre <flashgordonreced...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I know it was a fatality, and such incidents have to be investigated,
>> but...*12* hours of closure?
>>
>> --
>> Halmyre
>
>There does seem to be a policy of closing major roads for a inordinate
>amount of time to investigate fatal accidents and other serious
>incidents. Surely the Police only have to measure the skid marks and
>take a few photographs, and the Highways Agency have to clear the
>wreckage, which shouldn't take that long.
>
>The other thing I find really annoying is reducing a Motorway to a
>single lane for roadworks at night. There is nothing worse than coming
>back after a long hard day, when you are already tired, only to have
>to sit in a traffic jam for over an hour for this reason, especially
>if nothing seems to be going on in the roadworks. The Northern section
>of the M25 seems to be particularly bad in this respect at the moment.
>
Some time ago, on a radio interview (I think it was about a long closure
of the M5), I recall that a police spokesman said that they treat all
road accidents as potential crime scenes, and need to close the road for
as long as is required to establish the facts of the case.

This morning (just after 8am), on the Nick Ferrari show on the London
local radio station, LBC, here has just been an item about why roads are
closed for so long. The impetus for this was yesterday's 7 hour closure
of the A40/M40 Westway out of London. I understand that a motor cyclist
was killed, and that no other vehicle was involved. A police
representative gave the following reasons, including:
*Showing due respect to the victim and family, and need to behave in
dignified manner.
*Collection of all the evidence, which involved time taken to bring in
the appropriate experts from outside bodies.

H&S was also briefly mentioned.

Other closures this week in London include the North Circular (motor
cyclist killed at 4am, no other vehicle, 8 hour closure) and Parliament
Square (motor cyclist injured, 5 hour closure).

The police representative said that they definitely did not keep roads
closed for any longer than was absolutely necessary, but conceded that
they did need to find ways of speeding things up a bit.

Are the police really justified in long road closures? Do they do it
'just because they can'? Is it sometimes to show respect for victims and
families? Are they trying to 'make a point' - imposing a long closure to
serve as a warning to other motorists as to what is likely to happen
when people drive carelessly (sort of a collective punishment)? I'm not
sure what my own conclusions are.
--
Ian
From: Brimstone on

"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjackson(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Cjnh6EBD5SUMFwpr(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
> In message
> <81995c76-c31a-4567-8262-e5318d08ed1a(a)i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Derek
> C <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> writes
>>On Jul 28, 7:31 am, Halmyre <flashgordonreced...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I know it was a fatality, and such incidents have to be investigated,
>>> but...*12* hours of closure?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Halmyre
>>
>>There does seem to be a policy of closing major roads for a inordinate
>>amount of time to investigate fatal accidents and other serious
>>incidents. Surely the Police only have to measure the skid marks and
>>take a few photographs, and the Highways Agency have to clear the
>>wreckage, which shouldn't take that long.
>>
>>The other thing I find really annoying is reducing a Motorway to a
>>single lane for roadworks at night. There is nothing worse than coming
>>back after a long hard day, when you are already tired, only to have
>>to sit in a traffic jam for over an hour for this reason, especially
>>if nothing seems to be going on in the roadworks. The Northern section
>>of the M25 seems to be particularly bad in this respect at the moment.
>>
> Some time ago, on a radio interview (I think it was about a long closure
> of the M5), I recall that a police spokesman said that they treat all road
> accidents as potential crime scenes, and need to close the road for as
> long as is required to establish the facts of the case.
>
> This morning (just after 8am), on the Nick Ferrari show on the London
> local radio station, LBC, here has just been an item about why roads are
> closed for so long. The impetus for this was yesterday's 7 hour closure of
> the A40/M40 Westway out of London. I understand that a motor cyclist was
> killed, and that no other vehicle was involved. A police representative
> gave the following reasons, including:
> *Showing due respect to the victim and family, and need to behave in
> dignified manner.
> *Collection of all the evidence, which involved time taken to bring in the
> appropriate experts from outside bodies.
>
> H&S was also briefly mentioned.
>
> Other closures this week in London include the North Circular (motor
> cyclist killed at 4am, no other vehicle, 8 hour closure) and Parliament
> Square (motor cyclist injured, 5 hour closure).
>
> The police representative said that they definitely did not keep roads
> closed for any longer than was absolutely necessary, but conceded that
> they did need to find ways of speeding things up a bit.
>
> Are the police really justified in long road closures? Do they do it 'just
> because they can'? Is it sometimes to show respect for victims and
> families? Are they trying to 'make a point' - imposing a long closure to
> serve as a warning to other motorists as to what is likely to happen when
> people drive carelessly (sort of a collective punishment)? I'm not sure
> what my own conclusions are.
>
Given that these long road closures are a relatively recent phenomenon I do
think the police should be made more aware of the effects their closure of
roads has on other road users.


From: FrengaX on
On Jul 29, 9:20 am, "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVETHISjack...(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:Cjnh6EBD5SUMFwpr(a)g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
>
>
>
> > In message
> > <81995c76-c31a-4567-8262-e5318d08e...(a)i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, Derek
> > C <del.copel...(a)tiscali.co.uk> writes
> >>On Jul 28, 7:31 am, Halmyre <flashgordonreced...(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> I know it was a fatality, and such incidents have to be investigated,
> >>> but...*12* hours of closure?
>
> >>> --
> >>> Halmyre
>
> >>There does seem to be a policy of closing major roads for a inordinate
> >>amount of time to investigate fatal accidents and other serious
> >>incidents. Surely the Police only have to measure the skid marks and
> >>take a few photographs, and the Highways Agency have to clear the
> >>wreckage, which shouldn't take that long.
>
> >>The other thing I find really annoying is reducing a Motorway to a
> >>single lane for roadworks at night. There is nothing worse than coming
> >>back after a long hard day, when you are already tired, only to have
> >>to sit in a traffic jam for over an hour for this reason, especially
> >>if nothing seems to be going on in the roadworks. The Northern section
> >>of the M25 seems to be particularly bad in this respect at the moment.
>
> > Some time ago, on a radio interview (I think it was about a long closure
> > of the M5), I recall that a police spokesman said that they treat all road
> > accidents as potential crime scenes, and need to close the road for as
> > long as is required to establish the facts of the case.
>
> > This morning (just after 8am), on the Nick Ferrari show on the London
> > local radio station, LBC, here has just been an item about why roads are
> > closed for so long. The impetus for this was yesterday's 7 hour closure of
> > the A40/M40 Westway out of London. I understand that a motor cyclist was
> > killed, and that no other vehicle was involved. A police representative
> > gave the following reasons, including:
> > *Showing due respect to the victim and family, and need to behave in
> > dignified manner.
> > *Collection of all the evidence, which involved time taken to bring in the
> > appropriate experts from outside bodies.
>
> > H&S was also briefly mentioned.
>
> > Other closures this week in London include the North Circular (motor
> > cyclist killed at 4am, no other vehicle, 8 hour closure) and Parliament
> > Square (motor cyclist injured, 5 hour closure).
>
> > The police representative said that they definitely did not keep roads
> > closed for any longer than was absolutely necessary, but conceded that
> > they did need to find ways of speeding things up a bit.
>
> > Are the police really justified in long road closures? Do they do it 'just
> > because they can'? Is it sometimes to show respect for victims and
> > families? Are they trying to 'make a point' - imposing a long closure to
> > serve as a warning to other motorists as to what is likely to happen when
> > people drive carelessly (sort of a collective punishment)? I'm not sure
> > what my own conclusions are.
>
> Given that these long road closures are a relatively recent phenomenon I do
> think the police should be made more aware of the effects their closure of
> roads has on other road users.

While evidence gathering etc is important, and even in single vehicle
fatal accidents, the family have a right to know the circumstances of
the death, which can entail more detailed SoC work, I also think that
the police need to consider more the sheer size of the problem they
create, with often thousands of people caught up, whether "trapped" on
the motorway or caught up in the snarl-ups which extend for miles
around. There is a cost to all this delay, which can total a very big
sum when all added up. I think the balance has not been reached, with
the "easy" (for the police) option of a long closure being preferred.