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From: atec7 7 ""atec77" on 15 Jun 2010 08:56
D Walford wrote:
> On 15/06/2010 7:38 PM, Noddy wrote:
>> "D Walford"<dwalford(a)internode.on.net> wrote in message
>>> Could be done but we would need a lot more Police on the roads.
>> Interesting that you mention that.
>> This long week-end in Victoria they were supposed to be having one of the
>> biggest blitz's we've ever had, yet in travelling between Bacchus
>> Marsh and
>> Altona over Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday (including one trip to
>> Tecoma on Sunday night) I didn't see a single copper or Vicroads
>> vehicle on
>> any road the whole time.
> That doesn't surprise me at all, at one point the Western Hwy around
> Rockbank had the reputation of being the area with the highest number of
> camera fines but in the last couple of years police and cameras in that
> area are rare.
> If there is a camera its usually easy to spot in the 90zone usually just
> before the caravan park (could be either in or out bound), be suspicious
> of anything late model parked in that area.
> They must have been about because in the news they said they booked over
> 11,000 motorists but for some reason they are few and far between around
> our way.
The late model will change
Qld rozzas parked a wreck under the overpass just past Micky Dee's at
logan lee for several days housing an unmanned cctv and flash unit
4th day someone firebombed it in the wee hours and it was claimed
worth 50k ( bollocks)
up here it can be anything including a 380 the local Detectives had (
From: D Walford on 15 Jun 2010 09:00
On 15/06/2010 10:15 PM, st3ph3nm wrote:
> On Jun 14, 4:39 pm, the fonz<arthur.fonzzare...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 14, 4:15 pm, Athol<athol_SPIT_S...(a)idl.net.au> wrote:
>>> The injury and fatality rates in Australia are worse than various
>>> countries around Europe, and are actually worse than the improvements
>>> predicted based solely on the improvement in the safety of the vehicle
>>> fleet plus improved roads (eg new freeways, carriageway duplication,
>>> black spot modifications, etc.) should have achieved.
>> australia is pretty much on the OECD average at 0.7 deaths per hundred
>> million vehicle kilometres. again, when skaife talked about how "it's
>> not working" i'm unsure what he meant. you can also see from that
>> report that Vic, with the most strict enforcement regime, has a lower
>> fatality rate than other states.
>> i agree with skaife about the need to train better drivers and that if
>> we did, it's possible to raise speed limits. but i don't agree we
>> could do that today.
> You're looking at National figures, where improvements in safety are
> arguably accounted for by improvements in safety engineering in more
> modern vehicles. If we're only average by OECD standards, the
> draconian speed enforcement tactics are clearly not working. In
> Victoria for example, (which Skaife is talking about) in 2001 - 2002
> the road toll increased by 10%, whilst speeding apparently was reduced
> (according to the Vic Police at the time) by 25%. Which sadly was
> hailed by authorities as a success!
> So here's the thing. They're enforcing laws which aren't addressing
> *causes* Getting back to the point, freeways would be safer if we
> enforced proper lane discipline, rather than speed limits, because
> it's more dangerous to be travelling at different speeds in the same
> lane, than it is to be travelling fast per se.
Agree but how are they going to do that if judging by the way the cops
behave they don't even understand what lane discipline is themselves.
From: Feral on 15 Jun 2010 16:32
D Walford wrote:
> Knowing cops help when they identify their cars for you:-)
My original point is valid, they are easy to *spot* when they
are pointed out to *you*. :-)
We know you're not an average Joe. ;-)
> A cop who used to be in the rc car club was a senior sgt in the now
> defunct drug squad, he drove cars with untraceable rego numbers (the
> cars weren't actually registered and had fake rego plates) and trick
> wiring with switches to turn off brake lights to avoid the lights being
> seen when using the car for surveillance and hidden radio gear with
> concealed antenna's, it looked a lot like the AU ute in the picture.
> Brother in law had an unmarked black WRX for a while, it even tricked
> his workmates.
> Of course no one can pick them all but you are observant you can spot
> them, not long ago the locals were using a silver XR6 turbo ute for
> traffic duty, problem is there isn't that many to spot.
But, when someone (very few I honestly think) drive out of
their *zone*, can they pick unmarked ones then. We're not
discussing Dazza "Supermans" eyes here. :-)
> Obviously there are reasons why it is so (paper work) but it is such a waste of
Nah. What they have to do, they have to do and I don't see
that as wasted resources. Sometimes what they are *made* to do
might fit that category of waste. More resources (human and
camera) IMO is what is really required. ;-) As is said on this
site, camera's free up bodies for other duties.
Take Care. ~~
Feral Al ( @..@)
(\- :-P -/)
^^^ % ^^^
From: atec7 7 ""atec77" on 15 Jun 2010 16:34
> D Walford wrote:
>> On 15/06/2010 11:26 AM, John_H wrote:
>>> D Walford wrote:
>>>> On 15/06/2010 2:03 AM, Bernd Felsche wrote:
>>>>> It's not hard to drive in Germany... if you have the right attitude.
>>>>> Attitude is 80% of the difference.
>>>> Very good point, it may be possible to teach new drivers the right
>>>> attitude but very difficult to change older ones.
>>> I've said it all before, but here we go again....
>>> Road rage, in its various forms, is the most neglected road safety
>>> issue in this country. The most common everyday examples I see
>>> are.... tailgating (when it's done to demonstrate annoyance or to
>>> intimidate, as it frequently is) and deliberately blocking others from
>>> merging, overtaking or lane changing.
>>> Far worse examples aren't unusual and it's all down to attitude. Only
>>> the very worst are ever prosecuted... eg irate motorist runs down old
>>> lady in dispute over parking spot and gets 40 hours community service!
>>> It's been going on for so long it's now a part of the national psyche.
>> Too true, I've probably been guilty of some of it myself when I was a
>> lot younger.
>> Only hope is to change the attitudes of the very young and work up from
> As much as I perish the thought, the only hope is to crack down hard
> on the offenders (who pass on their bad habits to the young).
What makes you think it will suddenly change peoples attitude ?
coercion and retraining does work but some intractable simply wont
listen , they need heavy persuasion and a financial inducement most of
which excists but is not suitably applied
> Licence disqualification is what's most likely to change attitudes,
> with a corresponding crack down on those who continue to drive while
Doesn't work unless a three way attack is instigated ( education fines
and proactive policing)and that's where it fails , to much chasing fines
and not enough polite involvement of coppers ( traffic school)
For those who care to read them, statistics indicate
> that around 10% of drivers involved in serious crashes are unlicensed.
> Big brother wouldn't need to divert many of the resources currently
> used to catch speeders to nail most of them.
See above re ineractive proactive police work > not fine chasing
> If it's good enough to confiscate cars from licensed hoons it ought be
> doubly so for those who drive under disqualification.
So I drive a cheap car and wont give a damn
> relieve 'em of their cars, owned or borrowed, and charge them with
> unlawful use of a lethal weapon as well.
Unconstitutional old bean
If they've stolen it, then
> bang 'em up for longer. :)
From: Feral on 15 Jun 2010 16:44
atec7 7 > wrote:
> Doesn't work unless a three way attack is instigated ( education fines
> and proactive policing)and that's where it fails , to much chasing fines
> and not enough polite involvement of coppers ( traffic school)
Yep, gotta have the *mix*.
The "intractables" though, that's a difficult one. Heavier
fines and jail terms is all I see available.
Chain gangs are out, military service is out (would you want
one on either side of you), I don't know.
Take Care. ~~
Feral Al ( @..@)
(\- :-P -/)
^^^ % ^^^