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From: John Tserkezis on 2 Apr 2010 20:42
Doug Jewell wrote:

> That you would call a religion that collectively does more for the
> welfare of humanity than any entity (religious or non-religious)
> "filthy", says far more about you than it does about Christianity.

You want to be *REALLY* careful how you word that. Christianity has
had it's "less favourable" moments too.

Let's start with "burning times" shall we? It was an on and off affair
that carried on around the 15-17 centuries. As far as how many were
actually killed, depending on who you listen to Wikipedia claims between
35K and 63K or so. Might not sound like a lot, but life expectancy was
around 40, and population wasn't anywhere near where it is now, so in
other words, it was a lot.
All in the name of religion. Granted, the _real_ reasons varied a bit,
but religion was used as the justification.
More importantly, since Wikka is technically a religion (even though it
might not be registered as such in your part of the world) this is more
an argument that "my religion is the only right one, so everyone else is
wrong".
Yep, that's a nice thing to teach our kids.

Not modern enough for you?

How about religious wars? Let's start with the Crusades, and we can
keep going to today.
Keep in mind, these serve no other purpose than inflicting "my religion
is the only right one, so we're going to wipe you out".

Still not modern enough for you?

<http://www.smh.com.au/national/thank-god-were-not-all-atheists-bishop-says-20100401-ri4q.html>

(watch for wrapping) is as recent as it gets (few days ago).

A local Australian Bishop accusing atheists of causing war, claiming
godlessness was the reason Nazism, secularism, Stalin-ism and more.

Conveniently forgetting that Hitler was a Christian and Stalin was
raised to be catholic priest.

Secularism? Is he kidding? This is a good thing. Here in Australia,
half of our elected government are publicised members of a church
cult^H^H^H Group.
Who make decisions based on their *FAITH*, not on data that would best
benefit the community as a whole.

And, as the report mentions, he conveniently leaves out the bit about
the kiddy fiddlers STILL serving the church.
From: John Tserkezis on 2 Apr 2010 20:44
John Tserkezis wrote:

> Still not modern enough for you?

Dang it. Forgot that was the subject of this topic.
From: Sekula on 2 Apr 2010 22:55

"Doug Jewell" <ask(a)and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote in message
news:0pWdnfml56cWKCjWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au...
> John Tserkezis wrote:
>> Clocky wrote:
>>
>>> How absurd that the church leaders should use Easter as an excuse to
>>> attack a non-belief system.
>>>
>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/02/2863269.htm
>>>
>>> Seems the church is again stirring their sheep to revolt against a
>>> perceived threat which is just a protection mechanism against their own
>>> insecurities.
>>>
>>> Maybe they should spend more time investigating priests and their
>>> actions and helping the victims so fewer people become disenchanted with
>>> religion and the church...
>>
>> Yes, they keep forgetting how many little boys their church members
>> have fucked lately.
> How many little boys have been fucked by people who aren't church members?
> How many are fucked by school-teachers? random strangers on the street?
> their own relatives?
>
> The vast majority of church goers and the vast majority of priests are NOT
> pedophiles, just as the vast majority of the non-church-going population
> aren't either. But of course the media has a field day when it's a
> catholic priest, when it's anyone else you barely hear about it.
>
Oh well lets just pretend kiddy fiddling isnt a deal and we can all get back
to business hey ? Priests are given a position of power not usually
associated with the rest of us so they are expected to be above molestation,
I think you will agree.


From: Doug Jewell on 3 Apr 2010 01:21
Sekula wrote:
> "Doug Jewell" <ask(a)and.maybe.ill.tell.you> wrote in message
> news:0pWdnfml56cWKCjWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d(a)westnet.com.au...
>> John Tserkezis wrote:
>>> Clocky wrote:
>>>
>>>> How absurd that the church leaders should use Easter as an excuse to
>>>> attack a non-belief system.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/02/2863269.htm
>>>>
>>>> Seems the church is again stirring their sheep to revolt against a
>>>> perceived threat which is just a protection mechanism against their own
>>>> insecurities.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they should spend more time investigating priests and their
>>>> actions and helping the victims so fewer people become disenchanted with
>>>> religion and the church...
>>> Yes, they keep forgetting how many little boys their church members
>>> have fucked lately.
>> How many little boys have been fucked by people who aren't church members?
>> How many are fucked by school-teachers? random strangers on the street?
>> their own relatives?
>>
>> The vast majority of church goers and the vast majority of priests are NOT
>> pedophiles, just as the vast majority of the non-church-going population
>> aren't either. But of course the media has a field day when it's a
>> catholic priest, when it's anyone else you barely hear about it.
>>
> Oh well lets just pretend kiddy fiddling isnt a deal and we can all get back
> to business hey ? Priests are given a position of power not usually
> associated with the rest of us so they are expected to be above molestation,
> I think you will agree.
>
>
I agree whole heartedly that pedophilia is a serious
problem, I'm not denying that, but don't condemn a whole
religion based on the actions of a small percentage of the
population. Yes catholic priests who have committed acts of
pedophilia are bad. Yes the catholic church has probably not
done the right thing in some instances, but lets keep things
in a bit of perspective.

While care needs to be taken interpreting the various
statistics posted elsewhere in this thread, it is safe to
say that the incidence of pedophilia within the catholic
priesthood is either equivalent to, or less than, the
incidence in the general population. It is certainly safe to
say that the incidence within the catholic priesthood is not
*significantly* higher than the general population. So while
there is a risk, it would appear that children are just as
safe, if not safer, in the care of a priest as in the care
of anyone else.

Fathers (as in those who provide DNA to their children, not
priests), teachers, police, scout leaders, etc are all in a
position of power too, and all have a small percentage also.
You don't condemn the police force because a small
percentage are pedophiles. You don't condemn the school
system and all teachers because a small percentage are
pedophiles. You don't condemn parenting because a small
percentage of parents are pedophiles. So why condemn the
catholic church and the rest of Christianity?

BTW, just for the record, I am not, and never have been
associated with the catholic church in any way shape or
form, so my defence of them is not from a position of self
interest. I have only ever been inside a catholic church
once, and that was for the funeral of an acquaintance. I am
simply defending an organisation that on the whole does
benefit our society and has been the victim of a media beat-up.

--
What is the difference between a duck?
From: John Tserkezis on 3 Apr 2010 05:00
Dyna Soar wrote:

>> Oh well lets just pretend kiddy fiddling isnt a deal and we can all
>> get back to business hey ? Priests are given a position of power not
>> usually associated with the rest of us so they are expected to be
>> above molestation, I think you will agree.

> While not defending paedophile priests by any means, the same could be said
> for school teachers (both male and female), scout masters etc being above
> being molesters, yet there are *some* that are. And the defenders and/or
> ignorers of any paedophile are at least as bad as the offenders.

I can't recall a single public school, apon finding out one of their
teachers is molesting students, actively harbours said teacher, while
denying knowledge of any wrong doing taking place.

Churches, or religious-based schools on the other hand, are if you
believe the media, a dime a dozen.

Reality is probably somewhere inbetween, but the there is a very clear
bias there.
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