From: Adrian on
Matt B <matt.bourke(a)nospam.london.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying:

>>> I suspect that it would be more cost effective that attempting to
>>> calculate the appropriate speed limit, and enforce it, for every mile
>>> of suburban road.

>> We already calculated a reasonable speed limit, I now see most people
>> pretty much keeping to it because od cameras and public opinion.

> No, they are a compromise - and don't work. There are still 2000+
> fatalities on our roads each year.

Only around 10% of which have speed in excess of the limit as a (not even
the only) cause.

> It's not safe to drive past a busy school at chucking-out time at 30 mph
> (or even at 20 mph), yet it happens and is perfectly legal.

Umm, no, it isn't legal.
From: Adrian on
Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

>>> no, the speed alone would be judged dangerous driving

>> So he wouldn't actually be being prosecuted for any offence directly
>> relating to or even referencing the prevailing speed limit, then?

> not if he does done something much worse, this is pointless.

It certainly was a fairly pointless example of why speed limits might be
needed, yes.
From: Matt B on
On 29/07/2010 14:30, Adrian wrote:
> Matt B<matt.bourke(a)nospam.london.com> gurgled happily, sounding much like
> they were saying:
>
>>>> I suspect that it would be more cost effective that attempting to
>>>> calculate the appropriate speed limit, and enforce it, for every mile
>>>> of suburban road.
>
>>> We already calculated a reasonable speed limit, I now see most people
>>> pretty much keeping to it because od cameras and public opinion.
>
>> No, they are a compromise - and don't work. There are still 2000+
>> fatalities on our roads each year.
>
> Only around 10% of which have speed in excess of the limit as a (not even
> the only) cause.

14% of fatal crashes in 2008, with another 14% with "travelling too fast
for conditions" (but within the speed limit) as a factor. Which only
shows the folly of placing any faith in speed limits to deliver safe
roads and streets.

>> It's not safe to drive past a busy school at chucking-out time at 30 mph
>> (or even at 20 mph), yet it happens and is perfectly legal.
>
> Umm, no, it isn't legal.

As far as the speed limits are concerned it is. Which again, shows the
folly of placing any faith in them.

Not only do they not deliver a speed cap without expensive and
unsustainable enforcement, but even if they did that would only make a
small dent in the casualty figures.

Better to concentrate on measures that actually work.

--
Matt B
From: Adrian on
Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying:

>>> No, they are a compromise - and don't work. There are still 2000+
>>> fatalities on our roads each year.

>> Only around 10% of which have speed in excess of the limit as a (not
>> even the only) cause.

> you could argue that the speed limit has eliminated a lot of purely
> speed related accidents.

Did I forget to mention that more fatalities and serious injuries are
caused by excess speed within the limit?

> You certainly cannot argue speed limits do not work because there are
> still accidents. Speed limits just tend to mitigate the effects, not
> the causes.

Perhaps they exacerbate some of the causes? Inattention is the most
frequent cause. Perhaps that's brought about by the complacency
engendered by thinking that everything must be safe because you're
driving within the speed limit, so you don't have to think about it?
From: Matt B on
On 29/07/2010 14:36, Chelsea Tractor Man wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:31:02 +0100, Matt B wrote:
>
>>> We already calculated a reasonable speed limit, I now see most people
>>> pretty much keeping to it because od cameras and public opinion.
>>
>> No, they are a compromise - and don't work. There are still 2000+
>> fatalities on our roads each year.
>>
>> It's not safe to drive past a busy school at chucking-out time at 30 mph
>> (or even at 20 mph), yet it happens and is perfectly legal.
>
>> Recent DfT stats show that 48% of cars and 51% of light vans break the
>> 30 mph speed limit by 5 mph or more.
>>
>> Experiences in Brighton show that simple road design changes can
>> virtually eliminate road serious casualties and reduce traffic speeds
>> dramatically.
>
> OK, so you are saying design in ways of slowing traffic, I have no problem
> with that. Why didnt you say so in the first place?

You would probably have dismissed the idea. Now you realise it will
work, and that speed limits don't. ;-)

--
Matt B