Monbiot on speed cameras and the real war
in [UK Drivers]
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From: Adrian on 29 Jul 2010 12:00 Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > enforcement with speed cameras has reduced speeds in UK. Haven't you > noticed? No. One thing that I have noticed a marked reduction in over the last decade or so, though, is driving standards.
From: Adrian on 29 Jul 2010 12:01 Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: >>> no, the speed alone would be judged dangerous driving >> There have been cases where someone driving in excess of the speed >> limit has been charged with "dangerous driving" and has been acquitted. > as with any charge. ....even when they've admitted driving at the speed alleged. It's just that the court didn't find it dangerous.
From: Adrian on 29 Jul 2010 12:11 Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > If we could make all drivers skilled and responsible Easily. All we need to do is to require drivers to retake their test at regular intervals, to reverse the replacement of real live TrafPol by cameras, and to start actually targetting bad driving instead of merely the minor low-hanging fruit. >> You've given reasons which you think are "perfectly good" - yet every >> single one turns out to be lame or false. > you are being ridiculous, just saying "lame" or "false" now when you had > no answer when I made the point is pathetic. They've all been answered in detail.
From: Matt B on 29 Jul 2010 12:15 On 29/07/2010 16:55, Chelsea Tractor Man wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 14:49:30 +0100, Matt B wrote: > >>> you could argue that the speed limit has eliminated a lot of purely speed >>> related accidents. You certainly cannot argue speed limits do not work >>> because there are still accidents. Speed limits just tend to mitigate the >>> effects, not the causes. >> >> How? Given that they have little or no effect on traffic speeds. > > enforcement with speed cameras has reduced speeds in UK. Haven't you > noticed? According to the DfT speed stats published a few days ago, the average speed of cars on a 30 mph road was, yes, 30 mph in 2009 - as it was in 2008, 2007, 2006 and 2005. No reduction I'm afraid. -- Matt B
From: Matt B on 29 Jul 2010 12:22
On 29/07/2010 16:59, Chelsea Tractor Man wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:07:53 +0100, Matt B wrote: > >> In Hull traffic calming was first >> installed to slow traffic down, then when the speeds had dropped below >> 20 mph (and the accident numbers had dropped correspondingly), > > so going slower reduced accidents, as long as enforced. No, going slower reduced accidents. > You can do it with cameras or humps. Or by one of the other more sustainable and less damaging forms of "traffic calming". > Not much of an argument for not having speed limits, you > are making a good case for covering the country with SPECS :-( What? Hull reduced speeds from 30ish to less than 20 without changing the speed limits - then they changed the speed limits. Portsmouth changed the speed limits, but it had no effect on the speeds at all. Speed limits do nothing for speeds. OTOH speeds can be effectively reduced by many other means. Why the obsession with giving credit to something that doesn't work? What not concentrate all efforts on something that does work? -- Matt B |