Monbiot on speed cameras and the real war
in [UK Drivers]
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From: Derek C on 31 Jul 2010 06:16 On Jul 31, 10:55 am, Tony Raven <tra...(a)gotadsl.co.uk> wrote: > > Its all there in Hansard for 10 November 1965 from the Minister of > Transport following the Nov 5 pile up. > > " My hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary received full reports from > the police forces of Lancashire and Staffordshire on Monday, 8th > November. The conclusion to be drawn from these reports is that the > multiple accidents were caused by vehicles travelling at speeds which > were too high for the prevailing conditions. The police representatives > are convinced, as I am, that the remedy is to drive more slowly and > carefully. Speeds must be reduced, whatever may be the means by which > this is achieved. > > I have called a conference on Friday of this week of all the chief > constables and county surveyors concerned with the control of motorways > to consider proposals for action. My National Road Safety Advisory > Council has advised me to introduce urgently a speed limit on 160 > lengths of motorway during fog of 20 m.p.h. and a general experimental > speed limit of 70 m.p.h. on all motorways for the winter months. But, > whatever we do, nothing can absolve the individual motorist of his > responsibility for adjusting his driving to the prevailing conditions." > > "In one pile-up at the weekend a police vehicle was involved. It was > well lit up, was light in colour and had a blue oscillating light on top > flashing all the time, and still other vehicles came pounding along the > motorway, rammed into it and thereby forced it into vehicles in front, > causing a pile-up. It is clear that drivers are travelling much too fast > for these conditions and will have to drive much more slowly." > > A 70mph speed limit was then introduced on November 25. There is little > escaping the conclusion that it was introduced directly as a result of > pile-ups on the motorway caused by drivers demonstrably travelling much > too fast for the conditions when left to their own devices. > > -- > Tony The 70mph speed limit was introduced by a motorist hating Labour Government in 1965. See: http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/faq.html The appropriate extract reads: "Q: When was the 70 mph motorway speed limit introduced in Britain? A: The 70 mph National Speed Limit was introduced as a temporary measure in December 1965. It is often blamed on Barbara Castle, but at the time the Minister of Transport was Tom Fraser. The reason given was a spate of serious accidents in foggy conditions, but it is often claimed that the MoT had been alarmed by AC Cars testing their latest Cobra on the M1 at speeds up to 180 mph. It was confirmed as a permanent limit in 1967, by which time Barbara Castle (a non-driver) had become Minister of Transport.There was surprisingly little debate at the time: the fact that the average family car of the time could only just exceed 70 mph perhaps had something to do with this. It should be noted that this limit applied to all previously "derestricted" roads, not only motorways. All rural roads in the Isle of Man (including most of the famous TT course) remain genuinely derestricted, as a matter of interest." I remember blasting my sports car flat out along the M5, along with many other car enthusiasts, late at night, on the day before this measure became law. A think that 70mph was selected because that was about as fast as a typical Labour voter's plebmobile (Ford Anglia, etc) could manage in those days. Couldn't have any rich toffs going any faster than this in flash cars, could we. Politics of Envy! Derek C
From: Tony Raven on 31 Jul 2010 06:52 Derek C wrote: > > The 70mph speed limit was introduced by a motorist hating Labour > Government in 1965. Believe that if you like. But the reality is that whether it was the big pile ups in fog or AC testing their cars at 180mph on the M1, motorists scored a massive own goal by demonstrating that given the opportunity they were unable to judge a safe speed for the conditions. And it was introduced within 20 days of one such major demonstration. As for the politics of envy, it was proposed to be a winter only limit but it was an MP who was educated at Rugby and was a wealthy businessman with a big house in Kensington Palace Gardens who pushed for it to be made a year round limit. I'm sure he was very envious of people who could afford fast cars. It was also opposed by those great friends of Labour, the British motor industry. -- Tony " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell
From: Tony Raven on 31 Jul 2010 06:57 Chelsea Tractor Man wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:23:51 +0100, JNugent wrote: > >> It was introduced because the Minister, non-driver Barbara Castle, couldn't >> get her head round the modern world. > > if it was all a labour plot, how did they manage to get other countries to > comply. This envy based labour plot nonsense is one of the siliest things > (which takes some doing) I have read here. Indeed according to the then Minister of Transport (not Barbara Castle by the way): "There was evidence from many countries, Mr. Fraser said, that the imposition of high speed limits on roads outside towns not previously restricted was followed by reductions in both speeds and accidents. Data from France, Germany and Britain showed that the number of injury accidents and casualties was reduced by between 5 and 40 per cent, after the introduction of limits of between 30 and 62 m.p.h. American investigation showed the average casualty rate for drivers exceeding 70 m.p.h. was about three times that for those travelling at 65-70 m.p.h. When critical questions were put to him on the possible long-term effects of a 70 m.p.h. limit in its impact on British car design and exports, Mr Fraser said there had been no " violent reaction " from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, but they had not had time to consult individual members, from whom there might well come strong criticism." The Times, 25 November 1965, -- Tony " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell
From: Derek C on 31 Jul 2010 06:58 On Jul 31, 11:52 am, Tony Raven <tra...(a)gotadsl.co.uk> wrote: > Derek C wrote: > > > The 70mph speed limit was introduced by a motorist hating Labour > > Government in 1965. > > Believe that if you like. But the reality is that whether it was the > big pile ups in fog or AC testing their cars at 180mph on the M1, > motorists scored a massive own goal by demonstrating that given the > opportunity they were unable to judge a safe speed for the conditions. > And it was introduced within 20 days of one such major demonstration. > > As for the politics of envy, it was proposed to be a winter only limit > but it was an MP who was educated at Rugby and was a wealthy businessman > with a big house in Kensington Palace Gardens who pushed for it to be > made a year round limit. I'm sure he was very envious of people who > could afford fast cars. Doesn't sound much like Barbara Castle, who was a non driver! > It was also opposed by those great friends of Labour, the British motor > industry. > And look what happened to them as a result of this arbitary limit!
From: Tony Raven on 31 Jul 2010 07:01
Chelsea Tractor Man wrote: > > because you are in a dynamic situation and 30 or whatever is only > approximate to what is safe anyway. You seem to be under a misapprehension. Its a speed limit, not a speed target. You can drive slower than it if conditions dictate but at least it theoretically puts a cap on the speeds that some drivers would otherwise do regardless of the conditions. -- Tony " I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong." Bertrand Russell |