Monbiot on speed cameras and the real war
in [UK Drivers]
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From: JNugent on 3 Aug 2010 09:12 Brimstone wrote: > "JNugent" <jenningsltd(a)fastmail.fm> wrote in message > news:8bqgfsF1g2U1(a)mid.individual.net... > >> Someone will be along in a minute to suggest that petrol is cheaper >> now than it was in 1920, or something. > > OK, I'll bite. > > Dunno about petrol specifically, but very many more people can afford > cars now than in the 1920s so the overall cost of motoring has obviously > fallen compared to income over the last 90 years. Well, either that, or the output of the country has risen so far that the average person can now consume items (and at a rate) which would not have been imaginable in 1970, let alone 1920. Which is the more likely to be correct, do you think?
From: Brimstone on 3 Aug 2010 09:26 "JNugent" <jenningsltd(a)fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:8bqimlFfanU1(a)mid.individual.net... > Brimstone wrote: > >> "Derek C" <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >>> Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.trac...(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>> Derek C wrote: > > [�1] > >>>>> Now a Mars bar alone >>>>> costs almost that, and they are smaller than they were then! > >>>> but in 1965 I earned �660 pounds per annum. People always confuse falls >>>> in the value of money with increased price :-) > >>> You mean inflation caused by several inept Labour Governments? > >> Not forgetting Mrs T pushing inflation to over 20%. > > That certainly *never* happened. She inherited inflation at almost that > (17%), it having peaked at 25% (some say 27%) pa in 1975 under Wilson, and > Callaghan manging to reduce it to "only" 17% by 1979. > > Bank of England website figures from their very neat little inflation > calculator: > > <http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/inflation/calculator/flash/index.htm> > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1970 would have cost �1.09 a year later [9% > under Wilson then Heath] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1971 would have cost �1.07 a year later [7% > under Heath] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1972 would have cost �1.07 a year later [9% > under Heath] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1973 would have cost �1.16 a year later [16% > under Heath then Wilson] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1974 would have cost �1.24 a year later [24% > under Wilson] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1975 would have cost �1.16 a year later [16% > under Wilson] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1976 would have cost �1.16 a year later [16% > under Callaghan] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1976 would have cost �1.15 a year later [15% > under Callaghan] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1977 would have cost �1.15 a year later [15% > under Callaghan] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1978 would have cost �1.08 a year later [8% > under Callaghan] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1979 would have cost �1.13 a year later [13% > under Callaghan] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1980 would have cost �1.17 a year later [17% > under Callaghan then Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1981 would have cost �1.11 a year later [11% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1982 would have cost �1.08 a year later [8% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1983 would have cost �1.04 a year later [4% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1984 would have cost �1.06 a year later [6% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1985 would have cost �1.03 a year later [3% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1986 would have cost �1.04 a year later [4% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1987 would have cost �1.04 a year later [4% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1988 would have cost �107. a year later [7% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1989 would have cost �1.09 a year later [11% > under Mrs Thatcher] > > �1.00 worth of goods as at 1990 would have cost �1.05 a year later [5% > under Mrs Thatcher then Major] > > As you can see, the peak period for inflation was 1974/75, when the BoE > records 25% (there are plenty of contenporary calculations at 27%). > > Inflation was never lower than 9% under Labour (and that was in a year > when they took over power some way into the fiscal year, inheriting the > economic background from Heath). For full years in power, it was never > lower than 15% and peaked at 25%. The average inflation rate for their > full years in power (1975/76/77/78 over this period) was 17.75%. > > Inflation was never higher than 16% under the Conservatives (and that was > in a year where they took over power some way into the fiscal year, > inheriting the underlying position from Labour). For full years in power, > they never had a rate higher than 11% and quickly got it down the > following year, to 5%. Their lowest rate was 3%. The average rate for > their full years in power (1980-1991 over this period) was 6.44%. > > I am sure you will now agree that UK inflation never reached the dizzy > heights of 20% under Mrs Thatcher's stewardship. It only reached (and > indeed, exceeded) that level under the government led by the Rt. Hon. > Harold James Wilson, Baron Rievaulx [RIP]. You enjoyed digging that lot up didn't you?
From: Brimstone on 3 Aug 2010 09:30 "JNugent" <jenningsltd(a)fastmail.fm> wrote in message news:8bqit2FfanU3(a)mid.individual.net... > Brimstone wrote: >> "JNugent" <jenningsltd(a)fastmail.fm> wrote in message >> news:8bqgfsF1g2U1(a)mid.individual.net... >> >>> Someone will be along in a minute to suggest that petrol is cheaper now >>> than it was in 1920, or something. >> >> OK, I'll bite. >> >> Dunno about petrol specifically, but very many more people can afford >> cars now than in the 1920s so the overall cost of motoring has obviously >> fallen compared to income over the last 90 years. > > Well, either that, or the output of the country has risen so far that the > average person can now consume items (and at a rate) which would not have > been imaginable in 1970, let alone 1920. > > Which is the more likely to be correct, do you think? If you wish to expand the picture, then I'm happy with that. I would suggest that the correct answer is that it was six of one and half a dozen of the other.
From: JNugent on 13 Aug 2010 13:21
Brimstone wrote: > > "JNugent" <jenningsltd(a)fastmail.fm> wrote in message > news:8bqimlFfanU1(a)mid.individual.net... >> Brimstone wrote: >> >>> "Derek C" <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote: >>>> Chelsea Tractor Man <mr.c.trac...(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> Derek C wrote: >> >> [�1] >> >>>>>> Now a Mars bar alone >>>>>> costs almost that, and they are smaller than they were then! >> >>>>> but in 1965 I earned �660 pounds per annum. People always confuse >>>>> falls in the value of money with increased price :-) >> >>>> You mean inflation caused by several inept Labour Governments? >> >>> Not forgetting Mrs T pushing inflation to over 20%. >> >> That certainly *never* happened. She inherited inflation at almost >> that (17%), it having peaked at 25% (some say 27%) pa in 1975 under >> Wilson, and Callaghan manging to reduce it to "only" 17% by 1979. >> >> Bank of England website figures from their very neat little inflation >> calculator: >> >> <http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/education/inflation/calculator/flash/index.htm> >> >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1970 would have cost �1.09 a year later [9% >> under Wilson then Heath] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1971 would have cost �1.07 a year later [7% >> under Heath] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1972 would have cost �1.07 a year later [9% >> under Heath] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1973 would have cost �1.16 a year later >> [16% under Heath then Wilson] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1974 would have cost �1.24 a year later >> [24% under Wilson] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1975 would have cost �1.16 a year later >> [16% under Wilson] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1976 would have cost �1.16 a year later >> [16% under Callaghan] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1976 would have cost �1.15 a year later >> [15% under Callaghan] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1977 would have cost �1.15 a year later >> [15% under Callaghan] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1978 would have cost �1.08 a year later [8% >> under Callaghan] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1979 would have cost �1.13 a year later >> [13% under Callaghan] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1980 would have cost �1.17 a year later >> [17% under Callaghan then Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1981 would have cost �1.11 a year later >> [11% under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1982 would have cost �1.08 a year later [8% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1983 would have cost �1.04 a year later [4% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1984 would have cost �1.06 a year later [6% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1985 would have cost �1.03 a year later [3% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1986 would have cost �1.04 a year later [4% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1987 would have cost �1.04 a year later [4% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1988 would have cost �107. a year later [7% >> under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1989 would have cost �1.09 a year later >> [11% under Mrs Thatcher] >> >> �1.00 worth of goods as at 1990 would have cost �1.05 a year later [5% >> under Mrs Thatcher then Major] >> >> As you can see, the peak period for inflation was 1974/75, when the >> BoE records 25% (there are plenty of contenporary calculations at 27%). >> >> Inflation was never lower than 9% under Labour (and that was in a year >> when they took over power some way into the fiscal year, inheriting >> the economic background from Heath). For full years in power, it was >> never lower than 15% and peaked at 25%. The average inflation rate for >> their full years in power (1975/76/77/78 over this period) was 17.75%. >> >> Inflation was never higher than 16% under the Conservatives (and that >> was in a year where they took over power some way into the fiscal >> year, inheriting the underlying position from Labour). For full years >> in power, they never had a rate higher than 11% and quickly got it >> down the following year, to 5%. Their lowest rate was 3%. The average >> rate for their full years in power (1980-1991 over this period) was >> 6.44%. >> >> I am sure you will now agree that UK inflation never reached the dizzy >> heights of 20% under Mrs Thatcher's stewardship. It only reached (and >> indeed, exceeded) that level under the government led by the Rt. Hon. >> Harold James Wilson, Baron Rievaulx [RIP]. > > You enjoyed digging that lot up didn't you? I did. But I knew what the figures were (to a nicety) already. |