Motorists above the law.
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From: Doug on 18 Dec 2009 02:45 On 17 Dec, 20:57, Simon Dean <sjd...(a)home.cubeone.co.uk> wrote: > Doug wrote: > > The EU is threatening to take the UK to court and be fined for its air > > pollution but this only applies to PM10s, which are mainly emitted by > > buses and lorries. Meanwhile motorists are completely free to emit > > several other harmful pollutants, some of which are life threatening, > > and get away with it. > > > One has to ask why the EU is ignoring those other harmful pollutants > > in favour of motorists, who are 80% of all road transport? > > > -- > > UK Radical Campaigns > >www.zing.icom43.net > > A driving licence is a licence to kill. > > Umm I don't think it's a problem with cars as such. > > It's one of mobility and economic migrants. Now it's never been so easy > to travel, and instead of living and working in the local area and > having house prices that are affordable to the local workforce, I think > we find that the more affluent come in looking to save money (as only > the affluent can do) and buy up all the cheap houses, taking the best > paid jobs, and travel many miles by 4x4. > > Then the poor mugs you're actually having a go at, get the dregs of > what's left and still need a reasonably paid job just to make ends meet > and end up becoming quite frankly victims of circumstance. > > So Im all for scaling back transport actually, all the cars, planes, > boats, even trains and buses to a certain extent. > I agree completely but the car culture is more immediate and powerful and literally on our very own doorsteps and threatening us on every road we use as cyclists. It is also deeply entrenched in the police and legal system and in government. The very fact that virtually any individual, after a brief test, is allowed to climb into a car and proceed to pollute, congest and pose a threat to lives is a complete anathema. In no other context would they be allowed to do this. -- World Carfree Network http://www.worldcarfree.net/ Help for your car-addicted friends in the U.K.
From: Simon Dean on 18 Dec 2009 03:35 Doug wrote: > On 17 Dec, 20:57, Simon Dean <sjd...(a)home.cubeone.co.uk> wrote: >> Doug wrote: >>> The EU is threatening to take the UK to court and be fined for its air >>> pollution but this only applies to PM10s, which are mainly emitted by >>> buses and lorries. Meanwhile motorists are completely free to emit >>> several other harmful pollutants, some of which are life threatening, >>> and get away with it. >>> One has to ask why the EU is ignoring those other harmful pollutants >>> in favour of motorists, who are 80% of all road transport? >>> -- >>> UK Radical Campaigns >>> www.zing.icom43.net >>> A driving licence is a licence to kill. >> Umm I don't think it's a problem with cars as such. >> >> It's one of mobility and economic migrants. Now it's never been so easy >> to travel, and instead of living and working in the local area and >> having house prices that are affordable to the local workforce, I think >> we find that the more affluent come in looking to save money (as only >> the affluent can do) and buy up all the cheap houses, taking the best >> paid jobs, and travel many miles by 4x4. >> >> Then the poor mugs you're actually having a go at, get the dregs of >> what's left and still need a reasonably paid job just to make ends meet >> and end up becoming quite frankly victims of circumstance. >> >> So Im all for scaling back transport actually, all the cars, planes, >> boats, even trains and buses to a certain extent. >> > I agree completely but the car culture is more immediate and powerful > and literally on our very own doorsteps and threatening us on every > road we use as cyclists. It is also deeply entrenched in the police > and legal system and in government. The very fact that virtually any > individual, after a brief test, is allowed to climb into a car and > proceed to pollute, congest and pose a threat to lives is a complete > anathema. In no other context would they be allowed to do this. You had me up until cyclists when you started showing your bias. Though I agree there are many dangerous car drivers, driving illegal cars, and if the government actually took some action to enable police to get these menaces off the road - then we might actually end up helping the environment too. But don't pretend all car drivers are a menace to cyclists and that no cyclist is a menace to anyone else. There are menances everywhere. Don't forget in your anecdote, after passing a brief test, one must (legally) also have a vehicle that is fit for the road (MOT - not to mention actually maintained after the MOT), be fit for purpose (ie no drink or drugs), must have an insured vehicle etc, and must drive safely. Of course speed cameras do not detect unsafe actions (eg mobile phone use or drunkenness), despite a deterrant of points on your license. Im surprised you think it's as simple as getting into a vehicle and driving. It isn't. Unfortunately our pre-requisites aren't enforced, and of course we have many illegal drivers anyway without MOT or Insurance. It's not that they're allowed to get into a vehicle, it's that by and large, we do nothing about it. But Im quite sick of being tarred with the same brush as a dangerous driver and being told cyclists never transgress. It is however much easier to buy a bike unrestricted and ride on the pavement or on the road without a helmet, or lights, or high vis, ride like a loon, suddenly switch from the pavement to the road, be inconsiderate driving in the middle of a lane for no reason, smash into the side of someones car and the cycling lobby will blame the car driver for doing nothing wrong.
From: Doug on 18 Dec 2009 11:52 On 18 Dec, 08:35, Simon Dean <sjd...(a)home.cubeone.co.uk> wrote: > Doug wrote: > > On 17 Dec, 20:57, Simon Dean <sjd...(a)home.cubeone.co.uk> wrote: > >> Doug wrote: > >>> The EU is threatening to take the UK to court and be fined for its air > >>> pollution but this only applies to PM10s, which are mainly emitted by > >>> buses and lorries. Meanwhile motorists are completely free to emit > >>> several other harmful pollutants, some of which are life threatening, > >>> and get away with it. > >>> One has to ask why the EU is ignoring those other harmful pollutants > >>> in favour of motorists, who are 80% of all road transport? > >>> -- > >>> UK Radical Campaigns > >>>www.zing.icom43.net > >>> A driving licence is a licence to kill. > >> Umm I don't think it's a problem with cars as such. > > >> It's one of mobility and economic migrants. Now it's never been so easy > >> to travel, and instead of living and working in the local area and > >> having house prices that are affordable to the local workforce, I think > >> we find that the more affluent come in looking to save money (as only > >> the affluent can do) and buy up all the cheap houses, taking the best > >> paid jobs, and travel many miles by 4x4. > > >> Then the poor mugs you're actually having a go at, get the dregs of > >> what's left and still need a reasonably paid job just to make ends meet > >> and end up becoming quite frankly victims of circumstance. > > >> So Im all for scaling back transport actually, all the cars, planes, > >> boats, even trains and buses to a certain extent. > > > I agree completely but the car culture is more immediate and powerful > > and literally on our very own doorsteps and threatening us on every > > road we use as cyclists. It is also deeply entrenched in the police > > and legal system and in government. The very fact that virtually any > > individual, after a brief test, is allowed to climb into a car and > > proceed to pollute, congest and pose a threat to lives is a complete > > anathema. In no other context would they be allowed to do this. > > You had me up until cyclists when you started showing your bias. Though > I agree there are many dangerous car drivers, driving illegal cars, and > if the government actually took some action to enable police to get > these menaces off the road - then we might actually end up helping the > environment too. > > But don't pretend all car drivers are a menace to cyclists and that no > cyclist is a menace to anyone else. > > There are menances everywhere. > Yes but relatively speaking motorists are much more dangerous than cyclists. > > Don't forget in your anecdote, after passing a brief test, one must > (legally) also have a vehicle that is fit for the road (MOT - not to > mention actually maintained after the MOT), be fit for purpose (ie no > drink or drugs), must have an insured vehicle etc, and must drive > safely. Of course speed cameras do not detect unsafe actions (eg mobile > phone use or drunkenness), despite a deterrant of points on your license. > > Im surprised you think it's as simple as getting into a vehicle and > driving. It isn't. > There's about a million unlicenced and uninsured drivers on our roads. Anyone who half way knows how to drive can use a car. > > Unfortunately our pre-requisites aren't enforced, and of course we have > many illegal drivers anyway without MOT or Insurance. It's not that > they're allowed to get into a vehicle, it's that by and large, we do > nothing about it. > Indeed. There is nothing stopping them getting in a vehicle, which should really be treated as a lethal weapon in law. > > But Im quite sick of being tarred with the same brush as a dangerous > driver and being told cyclists never transgress. > It goes with the territory, along with parking fines/fees and a load of other hassle. As I frequently point out, cars are much more dangerous than bicycles. > > It is however much easier to buy a bike unrestricted and ride on the > pavement or on the road without a helmet, or lights, or high vis, ride > like a loon, suddenly switch from the pavement to the road, be > inconsiderate driving in the middle of a lane for no reason, smash into > the side of someones car and the cycling lobby will blame the car driver > for doing nothing wrong. > On the contrary, the vulnerable victim cyclist is often made to take the blame, even for their own death, instead of the completely uninjured killer driver. -- UK Radical Campaigns www.zing.icom43.net A driving licence is a licence to kill.
From: Adrian on 18 Dec 2009 12:56 Doug <jagmad(a)riseup.net> gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying: > On the contrary, the vulnerable victim cyclist is often made to take the > blame, even for their own death, instead of the completely uninjured > killer driver. <sigh> One day, Duhg, you'll understand that the cause and the outcome are different things.
From: Dr Zoidberg on 18 Dec 2009 13:46
"Doug" <jagmad(a)riseup.net> wrote in message news:4b1d0b96-a51b-4751-ba06-ba235ebf55b5(a)p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com... > On the contrary, the vulnerable victim cyclist is often made to take > the blame, even for their own death, instead of the completely > uninjured killer driver. > Just as they should do if they are the one that caused the accident. -- Alex |