My un-favourite junction
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From: Brimstone on 28 Apr 2010 19:09 "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message news:-cydnfY0qcGiMkXWnZ2dnUVZ7qKdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > On 28/04/2010 19:55, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: >> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 19:09:35 +0100, MrBitsy<ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> >> wrote: >> >> >>> I didn't say you couldn't cope with it. >>> >> thats progress then >> >> >>> I did say this is the second >>> post, where you point out how others are making it difficult for you. >>> >> In the first thread a driver did something ridiculous, that hardly >> makes life easier. > No, it doesn't, but you missed clues it MAY happen. You didn't see those > clues. Soon as someone points them out, the defensive arguments flood in. >> In this second thread, inadequate road design makes >> life more dangerous for everyone by introducing a hazard that could >> have been designed out. Some drivers cope, some do not. You are >> concluding that because I relate observations from my daily driving, I >> cannot deal with the issues I describe. >> > I didn't say you couldn't cope. I said this was the second thread where > you say everyone else caused issues for you. As in the first thread, you > do not say what you could do differently. > There have been other occasions when you have made similar comments about someone's driving, and when asked "what should he have done" you have been unable to provide useful guidance. It's disappointing that you appear not to have learnt from that experience.
From: ChelseaTractorMan on 29 Apr 2010 04:57 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:57:16 +0100, MrBitsy <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote: > As in the first thread, >you do not say what you could do differently. what could I do differently exactly? You are in a queue of traffic, you need to reach 50 or so from the lights to blend in to the "motorway". I cannot control what the driver behind does, I cannot control what the driver in front does, the only optional aspect I have are my following distance which I obviously keep generous, if the driver in front slows to 30 and hesitates because he is fooled by the *inadequate road design* I can hardly drive into him, I have to slow too, that exposes me to people behind who are driving too close and looking behind them while ignoring what's in front and also having to merge at insufficient speed with a "rolling roadblock" of a car dithering half in lane , half on the shoulder in front of me. It seems to be exactly as I said, you are determined to find fault in the reporter of any road hazard! The problem with that junction is poor design, no *individual* driver can overcome that. (Generally truckers on the "motorway" help by pulling out to L2, but sometimes they cannot, cars are often less helpful). From what you have said in the past is this to do with your idea that "roads cannot be dangerous" and a consequential wish to find an easily avoidable fault in driver action? Mostly I would agree that hazardous situations are easily neutralized by driving skills, but sometimes they are not and road design decides the danger level, another example being the hazard of oncoming cars crossing centre reservations, a danger best controlled by the fitting of crash barriers, not defensive driving. -- Mike. .. . Gone beyond the ultimate driving machine.
From: MrBitsy on 29 Apr 2010 08:12 On 29/04/2010 00:09, Brimstone wrote: > > > "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message > news:-cydnfY0qcGiMkXWnZ2dnUVZ7qKdnZ2d(a)giganews.com... >> On 28/04/2010 19:55, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: >>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 19:09:35 +0100, MrBitsy<ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I didn't say you couldn't cope with it. >>>> >>> thats progress then >>> >>> >>>> I did say this is the second >>>> post, where you point out how others are making it difficult for you. >>>> >>> In the first thread a driver did something ridiculous, that hardly >>> makes life easier. >> No, it doesn't, but you missed clues it MAY happen. You didn't see >> those clues. Soon as someone points them out, the defensive >> arguments flood in. >>> In this second thread, inadequate road design makes >>> life more dangerous for everyone by introducing a hazard that could >>> have been designed out. Some drivers cope, some do not. You are >>> concluding that because I relate observations from my daily driving, I >>> cannot deal with the issues I describe. >>> >> I didn't say you couldn't cope. I said this was the second thread >> where you say everyone else caused issues for you. As in the first >> thread, you do not say what you could do differently. >> > There have been other occasions when you have made similar comments > about someone's driving, and when asked "what should he have done" you > have been unable to provide useful guidance. > > It's disappointing that you appear not to have learnt from that > experience. > I have nothing to say about his driving in this thread, only that it always appears to be other peoples fault in his posts. -- MrBitsy
From: MrBitsy on 29 Apr 2010 08:15 On 29/04/2010 00:06, Brimstone wrote: > > > "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message > news:gYudna4X-O6nM0XWnZ2dnUVZ7tVi4p2d(a)giganews.com... >> On 28/04/2010 19:14, Brimstone wrote: >>> >>> >>> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >>> news:3Kidnfx4eLx85EXWnZ2dnUVZ8hEAAAAA(a)giganews.com... >>>> On 28/04/2010 18:20, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:50:58 +0100, ChelseaTractorMan >>>>> <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You were complaining how one particular junction creates problems >>>>>> for >>>>>> >>>>>>> you, because of the poor driving of others >>>>>>> >>>>> lets remove your inventions from this - I said I observed a badly >>>>> designed junction causing problems for others on a fairly regular >>>>> basis, you invented that I couldn't cope with it. You should write a >>>>> novel. >>>>> >>>> I didn't say you couldn't cope with it. I did say this is the >>>> second post, where you point out how others are making it difficult >>>> for you. >>>> >>> Says the man who refuses to move into L2 on a motorway to allow >>> someone else to join the road. >>> >> Get your facts straight. >> > OK. Advises the person he's teaching to drive not to move to L2. > > Same meat, different gravy. > Seeing the results of not anticipating is a great lesson - he passed his test first time and has no incidents in the seven years since. Sometimes, a young driver needs to SEE rather than just be told. -- MrBitsy
From: MrBitsy on 29 Apr 2010 08:34
On 29/04/2010 09:57, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: > On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:57:16 +0100, MrBitsy<ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> > wrote: > > >> As in the first thread, >> you do not say what you could do differently. >> > what could I do differently exactly? Why try to help, you will just get defensive and assume you are being attacked. Not knowing what else to do should show you there are more skills you could learn. However, if all you are going to do is rant how it is everybody elses fault, and also react badly to advice, why bother offering it? > You are in a queue of traffic, > you need to reach 50 or so from the lights to blend in to the > "motorway". I cannot control what the driver behind does, Yes, there are things you can do to influence the driver behind. > I cannot control what the driver in front does, the only optional aspect I have > are my following distance which I obviously keep generous, if the > driver in front slows to 30 and hesitates because he is fooled by the > *inadequate road design* I can hardly drive into him, I have to slow > too, that exposes me to people behind who are driving too close and > looking behind them while ignoring what's in front and also having to > merge at insufficient speed with a "rolling roadblock" of a car > dithering half in lane , half on the shoulder in front of me. > Again, everyone else is making mistakes and there is nothing you can do. Ask yourself some questions... How can I minimise the 'exposure' to the driver behind? How can i best minimise any risk from the dithering driver ahead? > It seems to be exactly as I said, you are determined to find fault in > the reporter of any road hazard! My primary reason for reading this group is road safety. I ignore most threads, concentrating on those that may help me refine my own approach to driving. In the first thread, I imagined I was on that section of road (which I know well), and what I could do differently to how you dealt with it. I thought about the clues you saw and how you interpreted them. My reply to you was to pass on my interpretation and thought process in dealing with the scenario. I have been attacked on this group hundreds of times after I posted scenarios I had been in. I was made to look a fool plenty of times, and I can see why. This group was the reason I ended up taking advanced driving courses, because I was obviously more at fault than I thought I was. I am not just trying to find fault, but putting how the situation could have been approached better, how the clues could have been better understood and how anticipation can be helped. > The problem with that junction is poor design, no *individual* driver can overcome that. (Generally truckers on the "motorway" help by pulling out to L2, but sometimes > they cannot, cars are often less helpful). > From what you have said in the past is this to do with your idea that > "roads cannot be dangerous" and a consequential wish to find an easily > avoidable fault in driver action? No, not a fault, but how the situation could have been approached differently. It was not your fault that a driver turned right when indicating left, but from your description of the event there was more you could have done to make the situation far less dangerous for you. > Mostly I would agree that hazardous > situations are easily neutralized by driving skills, but sometimes > they are not and road design decides the danger level, another example > being the hazard of oncoming cars crossing centre reservations, a > danger best controlled by the fitting of crash barriers, not defensive > driving. > Driving can be dangerous and no one driver can mitigate everything on the road, I agree. However, how would your driving change if you are on a road with no central barrier? My driving would change. -- MrBitsy |