My un-favourite junction
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From: MrBitsy on 29 Apr 2010 12:29 On 29/04/2010 15:00, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:12:56 +0100, MrBitsy<ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> > wrote: > > >> I have nothing to say about his driving in this thread, only that it >> always appears to be other peoples fault in his posts. >> > indicating left, turning right *was* other drivers fault. > > Yes, it was poor driving. It was 100% the fault of the other driver. Glad we got this clear. My points to you were you had clues there to better anticipate what MAY happen. > designing a bad junction isn't my fault either. > No, it isn't your fault at all. Glad we got this clear. You did say how your problems are down to the other drivers which isn't correct. -- MrBitsy
From: MrBitsy on 29 Apr 2010 12:43 On 29/04/2010 15:16, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 13:34:49 +0100, MrBitsy<ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> > wrote: > > >> Why try to help >> > no answer then. > > I have given plenty of answers but you take them all to be a personal attack on you. >>> You are in a queue of traffic, >>> you need to reach 50 or so from the lights to blend in to the >>> "motorway". I cannot control what the driver behind does, >>> >> Yes, there are things you can do to influence the driver behind. >> > what do you suggest in this scenario? > > Your speed, position and signals can all be used to influence the driver behind. >>> I cannot control what the driver in front does, the only optional aspect I have >>> are my following distance which I obviously keep generous, if the >>> driver in front slows to 30 and hesitates because he is fooled by the >>> *inadequate road design* I can hardly drive into him, I have to slow >>> too, that exposes me to people behind who are driving too close and >>> looking behind them while ignoring what's in front and also having to >>> merge at insufficient speed with a "rolling roadblock" of a car >>> dithering half in lane , half on the shoulder in front of me. >>> >>> >> Again, everyone else is making mistakes and there is nothing you can >> do. Ask yourself some questions... >> > There you go again, I reported how bad road design leads to errors in > peoples driving, you interpret that as I'm getting it wrong in *my* > driving. As I was not involved in any incident, how is that so? > > You posted about a junction that is not designed very well. You went on to say how other drivers were making it difficult for you to negotiate the junction. Again, from your description, it appears to me there are things you can do to mitigate the poor driving of others. >> My primary reason for reading this group is road safety. I ignore most >> threads, concentrating on those that may help me refine my own approach >> to driving. >> > I tend to agree, that and arseing about :-) > > >> In the first thread, I imagined I was on that section of >> road (which I know well), and what I could do differently to how you >> dealt with it. I thought about the clues you saw and how you >> interpreted them. My reply to you was to pass on my interpretation and >> thought process in dealing with the scenario. >> > you could have put it a lot better. > > >> No, not a fault, but how the situation could have been approached >> differently. It was not your fault that a driver turned right when >> indicating left, but from your description of the event there was more >> you could have done to make the situation far less dangerous for you. >> > we never discussed that because you insisted it was a scenario of > "very poor anticipation" which is bolox because 95% of the clues > indicated the vehicle would turn left or at least carry on. > > Right, so in your estimation there was a 5% chance the car would go right - what clues were the 5% the car would go right? All I am saying is, you didn't appear to plan for that 5%, leading to the near miss you had. In my mind however, there was a 50/50 chance of that driver going right, mainly due to the slow speed approaching a junction, which shows indecision. I explained why I thought the chance was high it would go right, and what I would have done differently. In no way am I saying you were at fault and neither am I saying you are an awful driver. What I am saying is, you appear to be blaming others 100% for the problems you experienced in the two threads. >>> Mostly I would agree that hazardous >>> situations are easily neutralized by driving skills, but sometimes >>> they are not and road design decides the danger level, another example >>> being the hazard of oncoming cars crossing centre reservations, a >>> danger best controlled by the fitting of crash barriers, not defensive >>> driving. >>> >>> >> Driving can be dangerous and no one driver can mitigate everything on >> the road, I agree. However, how would your driving change if you are on >> a road with no central barrier? My driving would change. >> > The point was that road design (in this case barriers) helps mitigate > dangers like vehicles jumping the central reservation, why else do you > think the authorities experiment with different types of barrier? The > barriers will be more effective than the little drivers can do in that > situation. > Yes, but my point is the driver should not drop their guard 100% because a barrier is there, or because a driver is indicating or a junction is poorly designed. Yes, someone else is to blame, but there are things an individual can do to lessen the risks. -- MrBitsy
From: Brimstone on 29 Apr 2010 12:55 "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message news:KuCdna3wt5-CLkTWnZ2dnUVZ8jRi4p2d(a)giganews.com... > On 29/04/2010 13:49, Brimstone wrote: >> >> >> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >> news:6b6dnc6-3ajQ5UTWnZ2dnUVZ8hz_fwAA(a)giganews.com... >>> On 29/04/2010 00:06, Brimstone wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >>>> news:gYudna4X-O6nM0XWnZ2dnUVZ7tVi4p2d(a)giganews.com... >>>>> On 28/04/2010 19:14, Brimstone wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:3Kidnfx4eLx85EXWnZ2dnUVZ8hEAAAAA(a)giganews.com... >>>>>>> On 28/04/2010 18:20, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:50:58 +0100, ChelseaTractorMan >>>>>>>> <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You were complaining how one particular junction creates problems >>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> you, because of the poor driving of others >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> lets remove your inventions from this - I said I observed a badly >>>>>>>> designed junction causing problems for others on a fairly regular >>>>>>>> basis, you invented that I couldn't cope with it. You should write >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> novel. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I didn't say you couldn't cope with it. I did say this is the >>>>>>> second post, where you point out how others are making it difficult >>>>>>> for you. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Says the man who refuses to move into L2 on a motorway to allow >>>>>> someone else to join the road. >>>>>> >>>>> Get your facts straight. >>>>> >>>> OK. Advises the person he's teaching to drive not to move to L2. >>>> >>>> Same meat, different gravy. >>>> >>> Seeing the results of not anticipating is a great lesson - he passed his >>> test first time and has no incidents in the seven years since. >>> Sometimes, a young driver needs to SEE rather than just be told. >>> >> Your pupil's driving is not the issue, yours is. >> >> >> Go on... > Your approach in threads such as this is all too often that of pointing a finger at the original poster, often making comments such as "You should have don it differently" without suggesting possible alternative course of action. If you want to play the teacher that's fine, but the only way you'll do it convincingly and properly is to offer some useful suggestions, and to know when there's nothing practical that could have been done differently and keep quiet.
From: Brimstone on 29 Apr 2010 12:59 "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message news:mqqdnY882paFKkTWnZ2dnUVZ8hydnZ2d(a)giganews.com... > On 29/04/2010 15:16, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: >> There you go again, I reported how bad road design leads to errors in >> peoples driving, you interpret that as I'm getting it wrong in *my* >> driving. As I was not involved in any incident, how is that so? >> >> > You posted about a junction that is not designed very well. You went on > to say how other drivers were making it difficult for you to negotiate the > junction. Again, from your description, it appears to me there are things > you can do to mitigate the poor driving of others. If he is having to change his approach to accommodate the poor driving of other drivers then they are indeed making life difficult for him.
From: MrBitsy on 29 Apr 2010 20:33
On 29/04/2010 17:55, Brimstone wrote: > > > "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message > news:KuCdna3wt5-CLkTWnZ2dnUVZ8jRi4p2d(a)giganews.com... >> On 29/04/2010 13:49, Brimstone wrote: >>> >>> >>> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >>> news:6b6dnc6-3ajQ5UTWnZ2dnUVZ8hz_fwAA(a)giganews.com... >>>> On 29/04/2010 00:06, Brimstone wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:gYudna4X-O6nM0XWnZ2dnUVZ7tVi4p2d(a)giganews.com... >>>>>> On 28/04/2010 19:14, Brimstone wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "MrBitsy" <ray.keattch(a)infinity.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> news:3Kidnfx4eLx85EXWnZ2dnUVZ8hEAAAAA(a)giganews.com... >>>>>>>> On 28/04/2010 18:20, ChelseaTractorMan wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:50:58 +0100, ChelseaTractorMan >>>>>>>>> <mr.c.tractor(a)hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You were complaining how one particular junction creates >>>>>>>>>> problems for >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> you, because of the poor driving of others >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> lets remove your inventions from this - I said I observed a badly >>>>>>>>> designed junction causing problems for others on a fairly regular >>>>>>>>> basis, you invented that I couldn't cope with it. You should >>>>>>>>> write a >>>>>>>>> novel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I didn't say you couldn't cope with it. I did say this is the >>>>>>>> second post, where you point out how others are making it >>>>>>>> difficult for you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Says the man who refuses to move into L2 on a motorway to allow >>>>>>> someone else to join the road. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Get your facts straight. >>>>>> >>>>> OK. Advises the person he's teaching to drive not to move to L2. >>>>> >>>>> Same meat, different gravy. >>>>> >>>> Seeing the results of not anticipating is a great lesson - he >>>> passed his test first time and has no incidents in the seven years >>>> since. Sometimes, a young driver needs to SEE rather than just be >>>> told. >>>> >>> Your pupil's driving is not the issue, yours is. >>> >>> >>> Go on... >> > Your approach in threads such as this is all too often that of > pointing a finger at the original poster, often making comments such > as "You should have don it differently" without suggesting possible > alternative course of action. > > If you want to play the teacher that's fine, but the only way you'll > do it convincingly and properly is to offer some useful suggestions, > and to know when there's nothing practical that could have been done > differently and keep quiet. > > In the 'indicate left but turn right' thread, I did nothing but offer suggestions. I take the point though that 'should have' would be better phrased as 'could have'. -- MrBitsy |