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From: Grumpy AuContraire on 23 Apr 2010 20:36 Tony Harding wrote: > On 04/11/10 11:25, Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >> Bob Willard wrote: >>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >>>> dgk wrote: >>>>> Right, but the question is how to best deliver people where they want >>>>> to go with the least harmful impact on the environment. Is that a bad >>>>> goal? >>>> >>>> Nope, not a bad goal at all but... Any big advance in technology will >>>> come from innovation from the private sector, not guv'ment mandate. >>>> It always has and always will. Guv'ment is nothing but a giant >>>> interference entity. >>> >>> It is OK to be grumpy, Grumpy, but the above is a half-truth. While >>> most of the big advances in technology do, as you say, come from the >>> private sector, many of those biggies were the result, direct or >>> indirect, of gov't funding. Networking and semiconductors and >>> computers come to mind. And, since this is a car-focused NG, let >>> me add that many of the advances under the hood are based on >>> computers or semiconductors; technologies that were, in turn, >>> greatly pushed by gov't funding. >> >> Really??? >> >> Seems to me that the transistor came out of Bell Labs. >> >> Seems to me that the IC came out of Texas Instruments. >> >> >>> Now it is my turn to be grumpy, by opining that -- at least in >>> the US -- the private non-pharma sector is so intently focused >>> on short-term ROI, that it is incapable of adequately funding >>> the long-term R&D needed to achieve those great leaps forward. >>> And that is why gov't funding, to the private sector and to >>> universities, can lead to real technological progress. >> >> Yes, I'll agree to this and in fact it is my point. Guv'ment has become >> to great provider of corporate welfare and it is more important to >> analyze why this became so. >> >> >>> Admittedly, it is easy to find examples of gov't funding that >>> is wasteful and weird. But, in the large-cap end of the >>> private sector, spending that is wasteful and/or political is >>> also pretty common. Gov't folks do not have exclusive rights >>> to insanity or inanity. >> >> Well, if you look at California, there's a perfect example on guv'ment >> running amuck. > > Exactly what do you mean here? Please don't say it has anything to do > with the energy situation & Enron. What I mean here is simply that guv'ment cannot be all things to all people... > (minor nit: it's "amok" not "amuck", no such work AFAIK) There is in my "book," as muck is exactly what california finds itself stuck in.. JT
From: Grumpy AuContraire on 23 Apr 2010 20:37 Tony Harding wrote: > On 04/11/10 21:59, Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >> E. Meyer wrote: >>> On 4/11/10 10:25 AM, in article >>> jcOdnX2Be9FOdVzWnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com, "Grumpy AuContraire" >>> <GrumpyOne(a)GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Bob Willard wrote: >>>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >>>>>> dgk wrote: >>>>>>> Right, but the question is how to best deliver people where they >>>>>>> want >>>>>>> to go with the least harmful impact on the environment. Is that a >>>>>>> bad >>>>>>> goal? >>>>>> Nope, not a bad goal at all but... Any big advance in technology will >>>>>> come from innovation from the private sector, not guv'ment mandate. >>>>>> It always has and always will. Guv'ment is nothing but a giant >>>>>> interference entity. >>>>> It is OK to be grumpy, Grumpy, but the above is a half-truth. While >>>>> most of the big advances in technology do, as you say, come from the >>>>> private sector, many of those biggies were the result, direct or >>>>> indirect, of gov't funding. Networking and semiconductors and >>>>> computers come to mind. And, since this is a car-focused NG, let >>>>> me add that many of the advances under the hood are based on >>>>> computers or semiconductors; technologies that were, in turn, >>>>> greatly pushed by gov't funding. >>>> Really??? >>>> >>>> Seems to me that the transistor came out of Bell Labs. >>> >>> To be totally correct about it, Bell labs invented the transistor, >>> Geophysical Systems Inc. bought the rights to manufacture it from Bell >>> labs >>> and renamed the company from GSI to Texas Instruments. Now, whether or >>> not >>> Bell labs did the research with Govt. investment is a whole other >>> question. >> >> Good point. >> >> Back a zillion or so years ago, I did a couple of contracts for the >> technical support (sub)contractor for the Safeguard R&D program on >> Kwajalein. The project management was by Bell Labs and later I learned >> that they were told that they had to do this because they were the only >> entity that was capable of such a complex program. >> >> Imagine that... The guv'ment actually telling a business entity that >> they had to take a contract! And, it was up to Bell Labs to succeed with >> a minimum of interference which certainly is not the case today. >> >> The plus side is that since AT&T was in charge, benefits were good even >> for us lowly subcontractors... > > Ah, yes, the bad old days. You think that things are better today??? JT
From: Glen Labah on 24 Apr 2010 01:30 In article <hqrq7622flt(a)news6.newsguy.com>, Tony Harding <tharding(a)newsguy.com> wrote: > On 04/06/10 02:27, gl4317(a)yahoo.com wrote: > > Ha! Those are only driven by wanna-be socialists. Too much computer > > technology, and made by corporations. The most advanced technology > > allowed near the homes of true socialists are the products of the Soviet > > Diesel Computer Cooperative. > > HUH? Did the SDCC survive the collapse of the USSR in 1991 (or thereabouts)? > > Did the really have diesel powered computers? That could be cool! There was a fairly well known political cartoon that appeared sometime in the very late 1980s, when there was the first joint television speech by Gorbachev and Reagan. The speach content was shown to be something along the lines of "Our two countries actually have much in common." The American is shown watching the broadcast on a high quality Sony TV with dozens of cable channel selections, and an absolute crystal clear image. The Soviet citizen is shown watching the broadcast on a "Soviet Diesel Television Cooperative" product, with a huge knife switch whose only choices are "On" and "Off", and with terrible picture quality. The cartoon stuck with me all these years because of the huge gulf between the two superpowers it demonstrated, even when it came to such simple things as access to quality technology, thanks to a requirement in one of them that pretty much all products be of domestic origin, in order to maintain full employment for the masses. -- Please note this e-mail address is a pit of spam due to e-mail address harvesters on Usenet. Response time to e-mail sent here is slow.
From: Tony Harding on 24 Apr 2010 08:40 On 04/23/10 20:37, Grumpy AuContraire wrote: > Tony Harding wrote: >> On 04/11/10 21:59, Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >>> E. Meyer wrote: >>>> On 4/11/10 10:25 AM, in article >>>> jcOdnX2Be9FOdVzWnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d(a)giganews.com, "Grumpy AuContraire" >>>> <GrumpyOne(a)GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bob Willard wrote: >>>>>> Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >>>>>>> dgk wrote: >>>>>>>> Right, but the question is how to best deliver people where they >>>>>>>> want >>>>>>>> to go with the least harmful impact on the environment. Is that >>>>>>>> a bad >>>>>>>> goal? >>>>>>> Nope, not a bad goal at all but... Any big advance in technology >>>>>>> will >>>>>>> come from innovation from the private sector, not guv'ment mandate. >>>>>>> It always has and always will. Guv'ment is nothing but a giant >>>>>>> interference entity. >>>>>> It is OK to be grumpy, Grumpy, but the above is a half-truth. While >>>>>> most of the big advances in technology do, as you say, come from the >>>>>> private sector, many of those biggies were the result, direct or >>>>>> indirect, of gov't funding. Networking and semiconductors and >>>>>> computers come to mind. And, since this is a car-focused NG, let >>>>>> me add that many of the advances under the hood are based on >>>>>> computers or semiconductors; technologies that were, in turn, >>>>>> greatly pushed by gov't funding. >>>>> Really??? >>>>> >>>>> Seems to me that the transistor came out of Bell Labs. >>>> >>>> To be totally correct about it, Bell labs invented the transistor, >>>> Geophysical Systems Inc. bought the rights to manufacture it from Bell >>>> labs >>>> and renamed the company from GSI to Texas Instruments. Now, whether or >>>> not >>>> Bell labs did the research with Govt. investment is a whole other >>>> question. >>> >>> Good point. >>> >>> Back a zillion or so years ago, I did a couple of contracts for the >>> technical support (sub)contractor for the Safeguard R&D program on >>> Kwajalein. The project management was by Bell Labs and later I learned >>> that they were told that they had to do this because they were the only >>> entity that was capable of such a complex program. >>> >>> Imagine that... The guv'ment actually telling a business entity that >>> they had to take a contract! And, it was up to Bell Labs to succeed with >>> a minimum of interference which certainly is not the case today. >>> >>> The plus side is that since AT&T was in charge, benefits were good even >>> for us lowly subcontractors... >> >> Ah, yes, the bad old days. > > > You think that things are better today??? I was joking - in those "bad old days" workers got decent wages, benefits, some job security, etc. As opposed to the 21st century.
From: Tony Harding on 24 Apr 2010 08:57
On 04/23/10 13:22, Bolwerk wrote: > Tony Harding wrote: >> On 04/14/10 08:37, dgk wrote: >>> So what's your option? Kill all the fish by boiling them in the case >>> of your NY reactor. >> >> Free food for the masses --- looks like win-win to me! :) > > I'm not sure eating out of the Hudson River will ever be advisable. Wouldn't the radiation sterilize the fish? |