From: Brimstone on 17 Dec 2007 08:43
The Luggage wrote:
> On 17 Dec, 12:33, Adrian <toomany2...(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Where on earth are you getting the idea that anybody here thinks
>> that the truck driver was anything other than utterly wrong, wrong,
>> The fact that cyclists are vulnerable to the fuckups of others just
>> means that cyclists NEED to be aware that they're very likely to
>> come off worst, so need to cover their own arses very thoroughly.
> I think you'll actually find that is the attitude on u.r.c if you read
> it carefully. We are only too aware that we're the ones that ill get
> squashed in an altercation with a lorry. And also aware that putting
> ourselves in blind spots is remarkably stupid. Much of the heat in
> this thread came as a result of Brimstone's comment
> "But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
> cyclist. Keep clear. "
> The cyclists, rightly or wrongly, took this as Brimstone claiming that
> lorries have right of way over bikes, and could run over them if they
> felt like it. Brimstone then didn't help by answering comments in a
> highly cryptic manner...
Which is more a reflection of some people's prejudices than anything else.
From: Peter Clinch on 17 Dec 2007 10:00
> The Luggage wrote:
>> <snip> Much of the heat in
>> this thread came as a result of Brimstone's comment
>> "But the general thrust is quite simple. The lorry is bigger than the
>> cyclist. Keep clear. "
>> The cyclists, rightly or wrongly, took this as Brimstone claiming that
>> lorries have right of way over bikes, and could run over them if they
>> felt like it. Brimstone then didn't help by answering comments in a
>> highly cryptic manner...
> Which is more a reflection of some people's prejudices than anything else.
So people are prejudiced against ludicrous sweeping statements that are
little help to anyone. Bastards, eh?
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch(a)dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
From: Ekul Namsob on 19 Dec 2007 13:39
NM <never.opened(a)all.com> wrote:
> Alan Braggins wrote:
> > In article <5sr39mF1ah14lU6(a)mid.individual.net>, Conor wrote:
> >> Just a note..cabs a feckin high now with the bottom of windscreens over
> >> 6ft off the floor so try and be a few feet in front of the lorry if
> >> you're directly in front of it.
> > If you're stopped at a red light and a lorry pulls up right behind you,
> > that means going a few feet through the red light. Sometimes that's safe
> > and advisable, but sometimes it would mean pulling into the middle of a
> > pedestrian crossing which is being used.
> If you are approaching a cyclist stopped in the middle of your lane
> waiting a red light (I know this is extremly rare) then when stopping
> behid him you should stop where you keep him in sight, it's not up to
> him to move.
"Tyres and tarmac": stop such that you can see the tyres of the vehicle
in front as well as some tarmac.
I think this is RoSPA advice. It seems quite sane. Clearly, there may be
times when it should be ignored but that's why the good Lord gave some
of us brains.
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>
From: Tom Crispin on 17 Dec 2007 18:55
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:07:35 -0000, "Brimstone"
>Tom Crispin wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:40:10 -0000, "Brimstone"
>> <brimstone520-ng01(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Tom Crispin wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:46:05 +0000, JNugent
>>>> <not.telling(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote:
>>>>> Tom Crispin wrote:
>>>>>> JNugent <not.telling(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote:
>>>>> [ ... ]
>>>>>>>> So what do you consider harsher? �300 fine for a cement mixer
>>>>>>>> driver killing a cyclist, or 300 hours community service for a
>>>>>>>> cyclist killing a pedestrian?
>>>>>>> We punish people convicted of offences. Offences committed
>>>>>>> deliberately are rightly punished more stringently than errors of
>>>>>>> omission and lapses of judgement. Or at least, they ought to be.
>>>>>> I very much hope that the cyclist did not deliberately set out to
>>>>>> kill a pedestrian. If he did I think that life is the minimum
>>>>>> sentence he should have recieved (for the pedants: the maximum
>>>>>> sentence also).
>>>>> He cycled along the footway deliberately. It wasn't a mistake.
>>>> The cement mixer turned left deliberately. It wasn't a mistake.
>>> The lorry driver was acting within the law when turning left. The
>>> cyclist on the footpath was acting outside the law.
>> Now we get to the crux of my point.
>> Recall that I was interviewed for a health and safety film.
>> Recall I was asked what one rule I would add to the Highway code.
>> Recall that my answer was:
>> You MUST check your mirrors and any blind spots before moving off or
>> stopping, changing speed or manouvering.
>Recall that one is obliged to now
>> With severe penalties for not following the rule.
>Recall that there are now.
>> Very quickly truck makers would find ways to eliminate blind spots,
>Recall that they have already.
That's good to hear, and news to me.
>> and drivers not looking would face serious criminal charges, not
>> simply a �300 fine for killing innocent cyclists such as Emma Foa.
>Recall that they do already.
From: Simon Dean on 19 Dec 2007 14:07
> MrBitsy wrote:
>> Simon, please post here you experience of driving lorries, coaches or
>> busses. At the moment, you are showing no understanding whatsoever of
>> the problems associated with driving a long vehicle.
> Sadly he's typical.
Well it's true that I may have missed the point of the argument....
Certainly some were saying that simply adding new mirrors might create
new blind spots - I presume that's the blind spot created behind a
mirror. Or have I misunderstood that argument about using "reflective
glass" (ie reflective glass, not simply a mirror)?
If not, I would imagine that a good way to see beyond a mirror or other
static object, is to reposition yourself slightly. ie, put a book in
front of your face. Can't see much. Move your head.
You aint ever going to get rid of all blind spots, and I think Ray's
missed the PP comment about reflective glass (which I don't believe is
strictly related to driving a truck necessarily, but more about simple