From: Brimstone on


"tim...." <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:84asueFmpnU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>
> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:duadnVZCy5wSV0LWnZ2dnUVZ8h6dnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>
>>
>> "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:hrogd0$dvu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:UNmdnXobEfCLI0LWnZ2dnUVZ8mGdnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:UsedncYJSIkp3ULWnZ2dnUVZ8opi4p2d(a)pipex.net...
>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Though, I wouldn't be surprised if, out of the 10 peers, motoring
>>>>>>>>>> taxes
>>>>>>>>>> overall, as a proportion of incomes, are well off the top rates.
>>>>>>>>> Whatever that means.
>>>>>>>> It means what it says.
>>>>>>> The meaning is nevertheless very well disguised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (btw, motoring taxes aren't just the fuel tax.)
>>>>>>> Make no mistake: I'd rather see higher road tax and lower fuel tax.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> would have all sorts of benefits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chorus ...there is no road tax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't agree. Just a showroom tax (*) and fuel tax.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (*) that works like stamp duty.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have that - it's called VAT, at 17.5% (a huge sum on even a cheap
>>>>> new car).
>>>>>
>>>>> We do have road tax. Why some people insist on denying it is a
>>>>> mystery.
>>>>
>>>> We HAD road tax but it was abolished long ago, before most of the
>>>> people contributing to this news group were born. Quite why some people
>>>> cling to redundant terminology is not yet understood.
>>>>
>>> And here we have a fine example of willy-waving and hair splitting that
>>> this group is famous for.
>>>
>>> Yes , it may not have been officially called Road Tax for a very long
>>> time , but everyone knows exactly what is meant by the term. It's the
>>> money you hand over to get the coloured disk to stick in your
>>> windscreen
>>>
>> As usual, you overlook the wider implications. Because of the continuing
>> use of incorrect names and terminology some small minded people make
>> assumptions about others, hence correct names should be used.
>>
>> In this instance those assumptions would include (but are not limited to)
>> the notion that only motorists pay to use the roads and that everyone
>> else is getting something for nothing.
>
> It's not clear to me how, when I am not in a vehicle, my being able to use
> a road without paying to do so is useful to me?
>
> (Apart from not getting my feet covered in grass and mud as I walk across
> a field, which seems to me to be a pretty minor benefit)
>
Huh? Would you care to expand on that?


From: tim.... on

"Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_uSdnVRjxeCo133WnZ2dnUVZ8kednZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
>
> "tim...." <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:84asueFmpnU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:duadnVZCy5wSV0LWnZ2dnUVZ8h6dnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:hrogd0$dvu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:UNmdnXobEfCLI0LWnZ2dnUVZ8mGdnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:UsedncYJSIkp3ULWnZ2dnUVZ8opi4p2d(a)pipex.net...
>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Though, I wouldn't be surprised if, out of the 10 peers,
>>>>>>>>>>> motoring taxes
>>>>>>>>>>> overall, as a proportion of incomes, are well off the top rates.
>>>>>>>>>> Whatever that means.
>>>>>>>>> It means what it says.
>>>>>>>> The meaning is nevertheless very well disguised.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (btw, motoring taxes aren't just the fuel tax.)
>>>>>>>> Make no mistake: I'd rather see higher road tax and lower fuel tax.
>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>> would have all sorts of benefits.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chorus ...there is no road tax.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't agree. Just a showroom tax (*) and fuel tax.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (*) that works like stamp duty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have that - it's called VAT, at 17.5% (a huge sum on even a cheap
>>>>>> new car).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We do have road tax. Why some people insist on denying it is a
>>>>>> mystery.
>>>>>
>>>>> We HAD road tax but it was abolished long ago, before most of the
>>>>> people contributing to this news group were born. Quite why some
>>>>> people cling to redundant terminology is not yet understood.
>>>>>
>>>> And here we have a fine example of willy-waving and hair splitting that
>>>> this group is famous for.
>>>>
>>>> Yes , it may not have been officially called Road Tax for a very long
>>>> time , but everyone knows exactly what is meant by the term. It's the
>>>> money you hand over to get the coloured disk to stick in your
>>>> windscreen
>>>>
>>> As usual, you overlook the wider implications. Because of the continuing
>>> use of incorrect names and terminology some small minded people make
>>> assumptions about others, hence correct names should be used.
>>>
>>> In this instance those assumptions would include (but are not limited
>>> to) the notion that only motorists pay to use the roads and that
>>> everyone else is getting something for nothing.
>>
>> It's not clear to me how, when I am not in a vehicle, my being able to
>> use a road without paying to do so is useful to me?
>>
>> (Apart from not getting my feet covered in grass and mud as I walk across
>> a field, which seems to me to be a pretty minor benefit)
>>
> Huh? Would you care to expand on that?

The simple question is, how does someone who doesn't own a vehicle benefit
from a road?

And if the don't benefit from it, why are you complaining that they don't
pay for it.

I accept that people benefit from the road being there in order to deliver
goods to local shops, but the vehicle doing the delivery is paying tax, so
that doesn't count.

tim





From: Brimstone on


"tim...." <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:84b3hiF12jU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>
> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_uSdnVRjxeCo133WnZ2dnUVZ8kednZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>
>>
>> "tim...." <tims_new_home(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:84asueFmpnU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:duadnVZCy5wSV0LWnZ2dnUVZ8h6dnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:hrogd0$dvu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Brimstone" <brimstone(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:UNmdnXobEfCLI0LWnZ2dnUVZ8mGdnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:UsedncYJSIkp3ULWnZ2dnUVZ8opi4p2d(a)pipex.net...
>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Though, I wouldn't be surprised if, out of the 10 peers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> motoring taxes
>>>>>>>>>>>> overall, as a proportion of incomes, are well off the top
>>>>>>>>>>>> rates.
>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever that means.
>>>>>>>>>> It means what it says.
>>>>>>>>> The meaning is nevertheless very well disguised.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (btw, motoring taxes aren't just the fuel tax.)
>>>>>>>>> Make no mistake: I'd rather see higher road tax and lower fuel
>>>>>>>>> tax. It
>>>>>>>>> would have all sorts of benefits.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chorus ...there is no road tax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't agree. Just a showroom tax (*) and fuel tax.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (*) that works like stamp duty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have that - it's called VAT, at 17.5% (a huge sum on even a cheap
>>>>>>> new car).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We do have road tax. Why some people insist on denying it is a
>>>>>>> mystery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We HAD road tax but it was abolished long ago, before most of the
>>>>>> people contributing to this news group were born. Quite why some
>>>>>> people cling to redundant terminology is not yet understood.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And here we have a fine example of willy-waving and hair splitting
>>>>> that this group is famous for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes , it may not have been officially called Road Tax for a very long
>>>>> time , but everyone knows exactly what is meant by the term. It's the
>>>>> money you hand over to get the coloured disk to stick in your
>>>>> windscreen
>>>>>
>>>> As usual, you overlook the wider implications. Because of the
>>>> continuing use of incorrect names and terminology some small minded
>>>> people make assumptions about others, hence correct names should be
>>>> used.
>>>>
>>>> In this instance those assumptions would include (but are not limited
>>>> to) the notion that only motorists pay to use the roads and that
>>>> everyone else is getting something for nothing.
>>>
>>> It's not clear to me how, when I am not in a vehicle, my being able to
>>> use a road without paying to do so is useful to me?
>>>
>>> (Apart from not getting my feet covered in grass and mud as I walk
>>> across a field, which seems to me to be a pretty minor benefit)
>>>
>> Huh? Would you care to expand on that?
>
> The simple question is, how does someone who doesn't own a vehicle benefit
> from a road?
>
> And if the don't benefit from it, why are you complaining that they don't
> pay for it.
>
> I accept that people benefit from the road being there in order to deliver
> goods to local shops, but the vehicle doing the delivery is paying tax, so
> that doesn't count.
>
You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension, I'm complaining about
nothing apart from some small minded motorists.



From: Derek C on
On May 4, 7:24 pm, "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote:
> "tim...." <tims_new_h...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:84b3hiF12jU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:_uSdnVRjxeCo133WnZ2dnUVZ8kednZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
> >> "tim...." <tims_new_h...(a)yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>news:84asueFmpnU1(a)mid.individual.net...
>
> >>> "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:duadnVZCy5wSV0LWnZ2dnUVZ8h6dnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
> >>>> "Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOOOO!!!...@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>>>news:hrogd0$dvu$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>>>> "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:UNmdnXobEfCLI0LWnZ2dnUVZ8mGdnZ2d(a)bt.com...
>
> >>>>>> "JNugent" <J...(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:UsedncYJSIkp3ULWnZ2dnUVZ8opi4p2d(a)pipex.net...
> >>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
> >>>>>>>> "JNugent" <J...(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
> >>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> "JNugent" <J...(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote
> >>>>>>>>>>> DavidR wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Though, I wouldn't be surprised if, out of the 10 peers,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> motoring taxes
> >>>>>>>>>>>> overall, as a proportion of incomes, are well off the top
> >>>>>>>>>>>> rates.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Whatever that means.
> >>>>>>>>>> It means what it says.
> >>>>>>>>> The meaning is nevertheless very well disguised.
>
> >>>>>>>>>> (btw, motoring taxes aren't just the fuel tax.)
> >>>>>>>>> Make no mistake: I'd rather see higher road tax and lower fuel
> >>>>>>>>> tax. It
> >>>>>>>>> would have all sorts of benefits.
>
> >>>>>>>> Chorus ...there is no road tax.
>
> >>>>>>>> Don't agree. Just a showroom tax (*) and fuel tax.
>
> >>>>>>>> (*) that works like stamp duty.
>
> >>>>>>> We have that - it's called VAT, at 17.5% (a huge sum on even a cheap
> >>>>>>> new car).
>
> >>>>>>> We do have road tax. Why some people insist on denying it is a
> >>>>>>> mystery.
>
> >>>>>> We HAD road tax but it was abolished long ago, before most of the
> >>>>>> people contributing to this news group were born. Quite why some
> >>>>>> people cling to redundant terminology is not yet understood.
>
> >>>>> And here we have a fine example of willy-waving and hair splitting
> >>>>> that this group is famous for.
>
> >>>>> Yes , it may not have been officially called Road Tax for a very long
> >>>>> time , but everyone knows exactly what is meant by the term. It's the
> >>>>> money you hand over to  get the coloured disk to stick in your
> >>>>> windscreen
>
> >>>> As usual, you overlook the wider implications. Because of the
> >>>> continuing use of incorrect names and terminology some small minded
> >>>> people make assumptions about others, hence correct names should be
> >>>> used.
>
> >>>> In this instance those assumptions would include (but are not limited
> >>>> to) the notion that only motorists pay to use the roads and that
> >>>> everyone else is getting something for nothing.
>
> >>> It's not clear to me how, when I am not in a vehicle, my being able to
> >>> use a road without paying to do so is useful to me?
>
> >>> (Apart from not getting my feet covered in grass and mud as I walk
> >>> across a field, which seems to me to be a pretty minor benefit)
>
> >> Huh? Would you care to expand on that?
>
> > The simple question is, how does someone who doesn't own a vehicle benefit
> > from a road?
>
> > And if the don't benefit from it, why are you complaining that they don't
> > pay for it.
>
> > I accept that people benefit from the road being there in order to deliver
> > goods to local shops, but the vehicle doing the delivery is paying tax, so
> > that doesn't count.
>
> You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension, I'm complaining about
> nothing apart from some small minded motorists.- Hide quoted text -
>

"Small minded" motorists are fed up of being tax cows for the
Treasury, particularly when much of this money is being wasted by Nu
Labour. I will remind you that when VAT was reduced to 15% in 2009,
fuel duty was increased to offset this loss of revenue. However when
VAT was increased back to 17.5% for 2010, this increase wasn't
reversed, and indeed there was a further increase in Fuel Duty in
April with more 'staged' increases to come. Fuel in the UK is about
the most expensive in Europe, which makes our economy less
competitive, especially for the road haulage sector.

Derek C

From: Silk on
On 04/05/2010 14:12, Conor wrote:
> On 04/05/2010 09:37, Silk wrote:
>> On 03/05/2010 23:13, JNugent wrote:
>>
>>> Do people on the National Minimum Wage usually run cars?
>>
>> People in the lower orders have to go on "disability" in order to be
>> able to afford a car.
>
> Rubbish. Just because you live in an overpriced shithole which requires
> two peoples income just to keep the bailiffs at bay doesn't mean
> everyone does.

Places are expensive for a reason and where I live is no exception. And,
for your information, I don't need to send my wife out to work or get
into debt in order to buy things we can't afford because I earn a real
man's wage.