Pay back time for Nu Labour travel policies?
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From: Mr. Benn on 2 May 2010 12:25 "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message news:moWdnZix_qSCBkDWnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d(a)pipex.net... > GeoffC wrote: >> Conor wrote: >>> On 02/05/2010 06:33, Derek C wrote: >>>> Over the last 13 years motorists and air travellers have been >>>> persecuted and taxed to death by Gordon Brown and Co. Remember the >>>> fuel duty escalator, attacks on 4x4 SUVs, special VED on new large >>>> engined cars, Congestion Charges, Airport Passenger Duty, poorly >>>> maintained potholed roads despite all the motoring taxes, etc, etc. >>>> Many of these based on unproven Man Made Climate Change science. >>>> >>>> I trust that you will remember all these when voting on Thursday. >>>> >>> The potholes are down to the councils spending the money they're given >>> elsewhere. >>> >>> Fuel, as a percentage of income (thanks to the NMW brought in by >>> Labour) is cheaper than it was when I started driving 20 years ago, >>> likewise road tax. >> >> >> Yup, UK is one of the cheapest places in W.Europe to run a car and the >> cheaper countries have road tolls, (lots of 'em). >> So stop whingeing. > > The cheapest in W Europe is Luxembourg. Even with the pound at Brown's > currecnt, incompetent, vastly-devalued rate against the Euro, diesel is > just under two-thirds of the UK price (when the pound is correctly valued > against the euro, it's more like half). There are no road tolls in > Luxembourg. > > Similar tales can be told of the Netherlands and Belgium (though > Luxembourg is cheaper). There are no road tolls in Germany (where fuel is > cheaper than here by about 13p a litre). > > <http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2010/april2010.pdf> > > DIESEL PRICES IN EUROPE & USA ... > UK pence per litre (�1.21 in the UK) > > STARTQUOTE: > Austria 98.78 no tolls > Belgium 101.06 no tolls > Czech 105.59 > Denmark 115.39 no tolls > Finland 100.09 > France 111.58 > Germany 107.64 no tolls > Greece 106.58 > Netherlands 107.28 no tolls > Hungary 103.34 > Ireland 107.02 > Italy 113.78 > Luxembourg 89.30 no tolls > Estonia 96.38 > Norway 130.64* (only one where fuel costs more than in the UK) > Latvia 95.01 > Lithuania 90.10 > Poland Z93.63 > Slovakia 97.02 > Slovenia 98.69 > Portugal 93.34 > Spain 95.62 > Sweden 116.27 > Switzerland 106.96 no tolls (you have to pay an annual road tax) > United States of America 52.89 > Malta 90.35 > Bulgaria 96.39 > > Note: We receive international prices to 3 decimal places and calculate > the UK pence per litre on that price. > ENDQUOTE > > How does it feel to be 100% (OK, 99%) wrong? The fact that it is only 52p/litre in the US shows how much taxation there is on fuel over here.
From: GeoffC on 2 May 2010 12:34 JNugent wrote: > GeoffC wrote: >> Conor wrote: >>> On 02/05/2010 06:33, Derek C wrote: >>>> Over the last 13 years motorists and air travellers have been >>>> persecuted and taxed to death by Gordon Brown and Co. Remember the >>>> fuel duty escalator, attacks on 4x4 SUVs, special VED on new large >>>> engined cars, Congestion Charges, Airport Passenger Duty, poorly >>>> maintained potholed roads despite all the motoring taxes, etc, etc. >>>> Many of these based on unproven Man Made Climate Change science. >>>> >>>> I trust that you will remember all these when voting on Thursday. >>>> >>> The potholes are down to the councils spending the money they're >>> given elsewhere. >>> >>> Fuel, as a percentage of income (thanks to the NMW brought in by >>> Labour) is cheaper than it was when I started driving 20 years ago, >>> likewise road tax. >> >> >> Yup, UK is one of the cheapest places in W.Europe to run a car and >> the cheaper countries have road tolls, (lots of 'em). >> So stop whingeing. > > The cheapest in W Europe is Luxembourg. Even with the pound at Brown's > currecnt, incompetent, vastly-devalued rate against the Euro, diesel > is just under two-thirds of the UK price (when the pound is correctly > valued against the euro, it's more like half). There are no road > tolls in Luxembourg. > Similar tales can be told of the Netherlands and Belgium (though > Luxembourg is cheaper). There are no road tolls in Germany (where > fuel is cheaper than here by about 13p a litre). > > <http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2010/april2010.pdf> > > DIESEL PRICES IN EUROPE & USA ... > UK pence per litre (�1.21 in the UK) > > STARTQUOTE: > Austria 98.78 no tolls > Belgium 101.06 no tolls > Czech 105.59 > Denmark 115.39 no tolls > Finland 100.09 > France 111.58 > Germany 107.64 no tolls > Greece 106.58 > Netherlands 107.28 no tolls > Hungary 103.34 > Ireland 107.02 > Italy 113.78 > Luxembourg 89.30 no tolls > Estonia 96.38 > Norway 130.64* (only one where fuel costs more than in the UK) > Latvia 95.01 > Lithuania 90.10 > Poland Z93.63 > Slovakia 97.02 > Slovenia 98.69 > Portugal 93.34 > Spain 95.62 > Sweden 116.27 > Switzerland 106.96 no tolls (you have to pay an annual road tax) > United States of America 52.89 > Malta 90.35 > Bulgaria 96.39 > > Note: We receive international prices to 3 decimal places and > calculate the UK pence per litre on that price. > ENDQUOTE > > How does it feel to be 100% (OK, 99%) wrong? Well you should know. You have conveniently chosen the diesel price and ignored some important factors. Many countries with cheap diesel impose road tax at a higher rate. In NL for example, the roadtax for a diesel is double that for a petrol engined car, a Ford Mondeo diesel will set you back about 1400 quid in road tax for a year. Diesel engined vehicles are subject to a higher roadtax in Germany also. I specified W. Europe in my post. Of the 27 countries in your list, 12 are not in WESTERN Europe including USA. E European countries have a significantly lower standard of living making fuel relatively more expensive. Petrol prices tell a different story http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2010/april2010.pdf UK new car prices are some of the lowest in Europe http://ec.europa.eu/competition/sectors/motor_vehicles/prices/report.html I hope you read this post more carefully than the last one. I was referring to the cost of running a car and not just the price of diesel. -- GEoff
From: GeoffC on 2 May 2010 12:38 Derek C wrote: > On May 2, 12:17 pm, "GeoffC" <m...(a)home.invalid.com> wrote: >> >> Yup, UK is one of the cheapest places in W.Europe to run a car and >> the cheaper countries have road tolls, (lots of 'em). >> So stop whingeing. >> >> -- > The UK is one of the most expensive countries in Europe to buy new > cars and to buy fuel for them. Wrong. UK new car prices are some of the lowest in Europe http://ec.europa.eu/competition/sectors/motor_vehicles/prices/report.html France has a lot of toll roads, but you > don't have to use them, as the national (toll free) roads are quite > good anyway. > As they are in the UK, still takes significantly more time on a long journey though. eg. In 10hrs using autoroutes I can cover 800km in a day. Using RN that figure drops to max 500km ( in a lorry). -- Geoff
From: JNugent on 2 May 2010 13:27 Brimstone wrote: > > > "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message > news:waqdnX7q45OZBUDWnZ2dnUVZ7v6dnZ2d(a)pipex.net... >> Brimstone wrote: >>> >>> >>> "Derek C" <del.copeland(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >>> news:bd1985ca-b750-41df-bae7-1c2c72a50450(a)y36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... >>> >>>> On May 2, 8:41 am, "Brimstone" <brimst...(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> "Derek C" <del.copel...(a)tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message >>>>> >>>>> news:bbb423ba-85fd-4acc-bb9d-9360dcee38cb(a)i10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> > Over the last 13 years motorists and air travellers have been >>>>> > persecuted and taxed to death by Gordon Brown and Co. Remember the >>>>> > fuel duty escalator, >>>>> >>>>> Introduced by the Tories and removed by Labour. >>>> >>>> Not always implemented by Nu Labour because the Government were >>>> frightened of riots. It has been this year and in a staged manner. >>> >>> Show me where the Fuel Duty Escalator has been reintroduced. >> >> Three separate 1p a litre (4.545p a gallon) increases in the tax, plus >> 17.5% on top of each of those in VAT, inside a year. >> Let's see - in a hypothetical case where fuel was previously costing >> �1 a litre (�4.55 a gallon), that would raise the price to �1.03525 a >> litre (�4.71 a gallon). >> >> Does that not count, simply because the government - dishonestly have >> not applied the name to it? >> > No it doesn't, that is the annual increase in fuel duty staged over > several months rather than dumping on those paying all at once. It's not > the fuel duty escalator. > > You obviously don't know what the Fuel Duty Escalator was. Never mind the name of it - we all know that Labour have been terrified since 2000 of a re-emergence of the Peoples' Fuel Campaign - what is the practical difference?
From: JNugent on 2 May 2010 13:28
Mr. Benn wrote: > "JNugent" <JN(a)noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message > news:moWdnZix_qSCBkDWnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d(a)pipex.net... >> GeoffC wrote: >>> Conor wrote: >>>> On 02/05/2010 06:33, Derek C wrote: >>>>> Over the last 13 years motorists and air travellers have been >>>>> persecuted and taxed to death by Gordon Brown and Co. Remember the >>>>> fuel duty escalator, attacks on 4x4 SUVs, special VED on new large >>>>> engined cars, Congestion Charges, Airport Passenger Duty, poorly >>>>> maintained potholed roads despite all the motoring taxes, etc, etc. >>>>> Many of these based on unproven Man Made Climate Change science. >>>>> >>>>> I trust that you will remember all these when voting on Thursday. >>>>> >>>> The potholes are down to the councils spending the money they're given >>>> elsewhere. >>>> >>>> Fuel, as a percentage of income (thanks to the NMW brought in by >>>> Labour) is cheaper than it was when I started driving 20 years ago, >>>> likewise road tax. >>> >>> Yup, UK is one of the cheapest places in W.Europe to run a car and the >>> cheaper countries have road tolls, (lots of 'em). >>> So stop whingeing. >> The cheapest in W Europe is Luxembourg. Even with the pound at Brown's >> currecnt, incompetent, vastly-devalued rate against the Euro, diesel is >> just under two-thirds of the UK price (when the pound is correctly valued >> against the euro, it's more like half). There are no road tolls in >> Luxembourg. >> >> Similar tales can be told of the Netherlands and Belgium (though >> Luxembourg is cheaper). There are no road tolls in Germany (where fuel is >> cheaper than here by about 13p a litre). >> >> <http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2010/april2010.pdf> >> >> DIESEL PRICES IN EUROPE & USA ... >> UK pence per litre (�1.21 in the UK) >> >> STARTQUOTE: >> Austria 98.78 no tolls >> Belgium 101.06 no tolls >> Czech 105.59 >> Denmark 115.39 no tolls >> Finland 100.09 >> France 111.58 >> Germany 107.64 no tolls >> Greece 106.58 >> Netherlands 107.28 no tolls >> Hungary 103.34 >> Ireland 107.02 >> Italy 113.78 >> Luxembourg 89.30 no tolls >> Estonia 96.38 >> Norway 130.64* (only one where fuel costs more than in the UK) >> Latvia 95.01 >> Lithuania 90.10 >> Poland Z93.63 >> Slovakia 97.02 >> Slovenia 98.69 >> Portugal 93.34 >> Spain 95.62 >> Sweden 116.27 >> Switzerland 106.96 no tolls (you have to pay an annual road tax) >> United States of America 52.89 >> Malta 90.35 >> Bulgaria 96.39 >> >> Note: We receive international prices to 3 decimal places and calculate >> the UK pence per litre on that price. >> ENDQUOTE >> >> How does it feel to be 100% (OK, 99%) wrong? > > The fact that it is only 52p/litre in the US shows how much taxation there > is on fuel over here. Exactly. |