From: Mortimer on
"Nick Finnigan" <nix(a)genie.co.uk> wrote in message
news:i1l5od$h7p$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
> mileburner wrote:
>> "Nick Finnigan" <nix(a)genie.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:i1ko55$sce$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Mortimer wrote:
>>>> I'm starting to doubt that I understand the highway code correctly.
>>>>
>>>> Suppose you have a car on a major road, indicating to turn left into a
>>>> side road. Another car is approaching from the opposite direction and
>>>> is indicating to turn right, across the traffic, into that same side
>>>> road.
>>>>
>>>> Who has priority over whom?
>>> Nobody. Neither by law nor in the highway code.
>>
>> Turning right
>> HC rule 180
>> Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle.
>>
>> In this case there was not "a safe gap".
>
> There was a safe gap, and the driver waited for it.
>
> The implication is that the person
>> turning right should give way as the vehicle turning left was an
>> "oncoming vehicle".
>
> If Mortimer had been oncoming (not turning), in stop-start traffic, it
> would be entirely reasonable for the right-turner to wait until the idiot
> blocking the junction moved and produced a safe gap for him to use to turn
> in front of Mortimer (who would not be inconvenienced). That would be in
> accordance with rule 180.

It sounds as if common practice isn't actually enshrined officially in the
HC if there isn't actually a defined rule for who has priority over whom in
this case. I can see a case for letting the right-turning car (C) go ahead
of the left-turning one (A) in order that it is in the middle of the road
and possibly blocking traffic behind it for the minimum length of time.

The "idiot blocking the junction" (B) could have left a gap, and then as the
car in front of him moved off and he started to move, a car could have
pulled out ahead of him from the side road. I've had that happen on box
junctions: I leave a gap as I'm required to and then start to move into the
box as soon as my exit becomes clear only to be stranded on the box because
some cheeky sod has pulled out from the side road and taken the gap between
the box and the car that was ahead of me.

Here are a couple more situations: two cars approach a major road from
opposite directions on minor roads. Once the road is clear of traffic on the
major road, does the left-turning one have priority over the right-turning
one if they are both wanting to go in the same direction on the major road?
And if one wants to go straight ahead from one minor road to the other, does
he have priority over the one that wants to turn right across the path of
the straight-on car?

Common practice, and what you are taught in the driving test, is "yes" in
both cases, but is that *officially* defined in the HC? A good HC would be
one which identifies for every situation which one car has priority over all
others, to avoid ambiguity and more than one car thinking that it has
priority over everyone else. That's why the American four-way stop junction
and the equivalent unmarked crossroad (where there is no distinction between
major and minor roads) are problems because everyone has to stop and then
work out who got there first (and woe betide it if two people each think
they were there first).

From: boltar2003 on
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:15:22 +0100
"mileburner" <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
>news:i1kj0d$m8u$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:24:56 +0100
>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
>>>news:i1k8fq$6jv$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:57:36 +0100
>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>>>>All drivers should give a damn, but unfortunately these 'normal people'
>>>>>don't, hence the number of accidents, injuries and deaths on our roads.
>>>>>The
>>>>>rules and guidelines are there for safety reasons, not just for the
>>>>>nerds!
>>>>
>>>> So knowing the highway code would prevent accidents? Really? How so?
>>>
>>>Well you go out now and drive round with no regard for the rules. Drive on
>>>the wrong side of the road. Go through red lights. See how many accidents
>>>you have....
>>
>> Everyone knows what the speed limit is. That doesn't stop us exceeding it.
>
>Who is this "us"?

Everyone who's ever got behind the wheel of a car. Don't even bother saying
you've never exceeded the 30mph limit or gone over 70mph on the motorway
even for a brief moment because I'd have to call you a liar if you did.

B2003

From: GT on
"The Peeler" <peelingthe(a)invalid.admin> wrote in message
news:91mr36hfkss5f7lno13vegqalpltviq8k0(a)4ax.com...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:24:56 +0100, "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>
>><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
>>news:i1k8fq$6jv$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:57:36 +0100
>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>>>All drivers should give a damn, but unfortunately these 'normal people'
>>>>don't, hence the number of accidents, injuries and deaths on our roads.
>>>>The
>>>>rules and guidelines are there for safety reasons, not just for the
>>>>nerds!
>>>
>>> So knowing the highway code would prevent accidents? Really? How so?
>>
>>Well you go out now and drive round with no regard for the rules. Drive on
>>the wrong side of the road. Go through red lights. See how many accidents
>>you have....
>
> You mean like cyclists do?

Yes - the ones who have never read the highway code and never sat the test
to prove that they have an understanding of the road laws before they drive
on the roads.


From: GT on
"mileburner" <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:i1krcq$fmv$1(a)news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "The Peeler" <peelingthe(a)invalid.admin> wrote in message
> news:91mr36hfkss5f7lno13vegqalpltviq8k0(a)4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:24:56 +0100, "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>
>>><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
>>>news:i1k8fq$6jv$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:57:36 +0100
>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>>>>All drivers should give a damn, but unfortunately these 'normal people'
>>>>>don't, hence the number of accidents, injuries and deaths on our roads.
>>>>>The
>>>>>rules and guidelines are there for safety reasons, not just for the
>>>>>nerds!
>>>>
>>>> So knowing the highway code would prevent accidents? Really? How so?
>>>
>>>Well you go out now and drive round with no regard for the rules. Drive
>>>on
>>>the wrong side of the road. Go through red lights. See how many accidents
>>>you have....
>>
>> You mean like cyclists do?
>
> In which case the answer is: very few...

Maybe so, but they are the ones that everyone notices. Much like the handful
of cars (out of many millions) that commit driving errors.


From: mileburner on

<boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
news:i1mi70$c23$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:15:22 +0100
> "mileburner" <mileburner(a)btinternet.com> wrote:
>><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
>>news:i1kj0d$m8u$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:24:56 +0100
>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>>><boltar2003(a)boltar.world> wrote in message
>>>>news:i1k8fq$6jv$1(a)speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:57:36 +0100
>>>>> "GT" <a(a)b.c> wrote:
>>>>>>All drivers should give a damn, but unfortunately these 'normal
>>>>>>people'
>>>>>>don't, hence the number of accidents, injuries and deaths on our
>>>>>>roads.
>>>>>>The
>>>>>>rules and guidelines are there for safety reasons, not just for the
>>>>>>nerds!
>>>>>
>>>>> So knowing the highway code would prevent accidents? Really? How so?
>>>>
>>>>Well you go out now and drive round with no regard for the rules. Drive
>>>>on
>>>>the wrong side of the road. Go through red lights. See how many
>>>>accidents
>>>>you have....
>>>
>>> Everyone knows what the speed limit is. That doesn't stop us exceeding
>>> it.
>>
>>Who is this "us"?
>
> Everyone who's ever got behind the wheel of a car. Don't even bother
> saying
> you've never exceeded the 30mph limit or gone over 70mph on the motorway
> even for a brief moment because I'd have to call you a liar if you did.

I confess I have exceeded speed limits. However, when you state "Everyone
knows what the speed limit is. That doesn't stop us exceeding it." it
implies that everyone exceeds the speed limit all of the time, which may of
course apply to some, but not to everyone.

There are not merely two polarized positions, (i.e. drivers who totally
disregard speed limits and drivers who diligently obey them). Most drivers
are somewhere in between and will take into account what the speed limit is,
which will have an effect on the speed they drive.

I tend to drive within the law and therefore try to stay 5 - 10 mph below
the posted limit. Others OTOH think that exceeding the speed limit by a
similar amount (or even a bit more) is acceptable.

So when you state "we" I think you actually mean "me" and "drivers like me".
:-)