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From: Mike G on 30 Oct 2007 17:50

"Roger" <roger(a)nospam.zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:313030303131343447279B0664(a)nospam.zetnet.co.uk...
> The message <13if43u44aanpee(a)corp.supernews.com>
> from "Mike G" <metier(a)lycos.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> >> I have a genuine Rover w/shop manual for the P6. Was intending to put
>> >> it
>> >> on eBay, but if you're interested make me a fair offer and it's yours.
>> >> No idea of postage costs, but it would go about 5Kg inc packaging.
>> >
>> > *5* Kg?
>
>> Whoops!
>> Make that 5 Lbs.
>
> Still a great weight.

Probably because of the paper quality. Although the pages are not
particularly thick, they do seem to be very dense, with a fairly smooth
finish.
It's also about 40mm thick.
Mike.

From: Willy Eckerslyke on 31 Oct 2007 05:25
Mike G wrote:

> I have a genuine Rover w/shop manual for the P6.
> Was intending to put it on eBay, but if you're interested make me a fair
> offer and it's yours. No idea of postage costs, but it would go about
> 5Kg inc packaging.
> Email me if interested.

I am, so have done.
From: Willy Eckerslyke on 31 Oct 2007 05:37
Jim Warren wrote:
> Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
>
>> It shouldn't be though, should it? I understood that one of the specs
>> of the DOT rating was that they had to be capable of being used
>> together safely. Obviously I'm not advocating mixing them as that
>> removes all the benefits of DOT5.
>
> It says DON'T DO IT in big letters on my DOT5 top up bottle. I would
> guess that they say that for a reason. Perhaps the mixable DOTs end at
> 4? 5 is, after all, a different chemical altogether.

The packaging on Automec DOT5 fluid says their's is safe to mix, but I
do recall them including warning labels to fit to the reservoir telling
you not to. That's probably just a reminder, to stop garages topping it
up with normal brake fluid.
I can't see that it'd matter if the two fluids remained seperate as the
hydraulic effect would still work, innit.
From: Jim Warren on 31 Oct 2007 06:08
Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
> Jim Warren wrote:
>> Willy Eckerslyke wrote:
>>
>>> It shouldn't be though, should it? I understood that one of the specs
>>> of the DOT rating was that they had to be capable of being used
>>> together safely. Obviously I'm not advocating mixing them as that
>>> removes all the benefits of DOT5.
>>
>> It says DON'T DO IT in big letters on my DOT5 top up bottle. I would
>> guess that they say that for a reason. Perhaps the mixable DOTs end
>> at 4? 5 is, after all, a different chemical altogether.
>
> The packaging on Automec DOT5 fluid says their's is safe to mix, but I
> do recall them including warning labels to fit to the reservoir telling
> you not to. That's probably just a reminder, to stop garages topping it
> up with normal brake fluid.
But the garage normal brake fluid is DOT4, so it clearly isn't a good
idea to mix them.

> I can't see that it'd matter if the two fluids remained seperate as the
> hydraulic effect would still work, innit.
Theoretically yes. But I wonder how long the master cylinder seals will
last?

jim
From: Jim Warren on 31 Oct 2007 06:31
Willy Eckerslyke wrote:

>
> The packaging on Automec DOT5 fluid says their's is safe to mix, but I
> do recall them including warning labels to fit to the reservoir telling
> you not to. That's probably just a reminder, to stop garages topping it
> up with normal brake fluid.
> I can't see that it'd matter if the two fluids remained seperate as the
> hydraulic effect would still work, innit.

I googled and found this:
DOT 5 Brake Fluid
By Mike Burdick
A while back when this topic came up, I posted excerpts from a Skinned
Knuckles article on silicone brake fluid.
They made the best attempt I've seen so far to actually address this
issue with hard data instead of anecdotes. The
data they used came from military tests in jungle conditions and tests
from the original producer of DOT5 fluid
(DuPont? I can't remember...). Even so, they were not able to come up
with many conclusions about DOT5 fluid. In
a nutshell, the conclusions were:
1. DOT5 does not absorb water and may be useful where water absorption
is a problem.
2. DOT5 does NOT mix with DOT3 or DOT4. They also maintain that all
reported problems with DOT5 are
probably due to some degree of mixing with other fluid types. They said
the proper way to convert to DOT5
is to totally rebuild the hydraulic system.
3. Reports of DOT5 causing premature failure of rubber brake parts were
more common with early DOT5
formulations. This is thought to be due to improper addition of swelling
agents and has been fixed in recent
formulations.
4. DOT5 is compatible with all rubber formulations and it does NOT eat
paint!
They also made some general recommendations based on this data and
personal experiences. These, along with
recommendations of list members included:
1. If it works for you, use it. You won't hurt anything if you do the
conversion correctly. (See, #2 above)
2. Careful bleeding is required to get all of the air out of the system.
Small bubbles can form in the fluid that
will form large bubbles over time. It may be necessary to do a series of
bleeds.
3. DOT5 is probably not the thing to use in your race car although it is
rated to stand up to the heat generated
during racing conditions. The reason for this recommendation is the
difficult bleeding mentioned above.
4. DOT5 is a good choice for the weekend driver/show car. It doesn't
absorb water and it doesn't eat paint.
One caveat is that because it doesn't absorb water, water that gets in
the system will tend to collect at low
points. In this scenario, it would actually be promoting corrosion!
Annual flushing might be a good idea.

Jim
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